Returning HV20 after 1 hour

Chris Hurd · March 22nd, 2007, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

It's quite easy to accidently cover the instant autofocus window on the front of the camera.

Very true for the HV10, and a good thing to point out... however this really is not as much of a problem on the HV20 due to its different ergonomics.

Bob Thompson · March 22nd, 2007, 09:43 PM

Maybe a quick way to disable Instant Autofocus would be to cover the sensor with your hand and then the camera may revert to normal autofocus - Just an idea

Bob

Alan Dunkel · March 22nd, 2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Very true for the HV10, and a good thing to point out... however this really is not as much of a problem on the HV20 due to its different ergonomics.

..and not much room for the hands. Great little camera, though it is a bit small, light to an extreme and doesn't bother trying to disguise itself as a pro cam, it looks like a consumer device. Really good value to picture, the 24p resolution holds up well via component, though my projector is 720p. The HV20 is a keeper.
Later, Alan

Lorry Smyth · March 23rd, 2007, 01:24 AM

I got mine today. I have to report my initial impressions of image quality are simply stunning. This level of performance (and feature set) at this price point was simply un thinkable just a year ago. I've attached it to the Sony DSR-60 external HDV recorder and everything works like a charm (except remote trigger via the camera's button which I expected so the recording has to be started and stopped directly from the Sony HDR-60... no biggie). 24p image quality (aside some obvious less dynamic range and less than a fraction of manual image control possibilities) beats hands down my Panny HVX200. So far my two disappointments:

1) Yes, the autofocus does not stay locked during zooming. Whether this is purely an optical issue or electronically a lack of sync between continuously auto focus adjustment while zooming that possibly can be fixed via a firmware upgrade or not, I do not know, but, it does NOT look right to me at all.

2) Just like the HV10, the lack of a basic exposure compensation feature during autoexposure (+ or - one or two F/stops) is absolutely inadmissible... even the upcoming TX1 has it (!!!)... and no, I am not talking about the basic variable exposure lock button because the only holds an exposure value in place while, if you zoom in or out or pan enough for lighting condition to change enough, you'll get instantly an over or under exposed picture.

So, the bottom line so far... as a "consumer" grade HD camera that shoots 24p, this baby is a monumental leap forward and hands down, Canon has produced one of the most exciting cameras on the market. As to aspiring to play in the "prosumer" market, I am not convinced. The HV20 is the most exciting toy of this year so far, but in no way, though it delivers pro image quality, is it a pro or semi-pro tool. For the price you can't beat it and, if Canon keeps on its own footsteps of rapidly improving their products, if the next-gen HV30 or 40 or 50 has as many improvements as the HV20 got from its HV10 counterpart, we're in for a truly exciting product line down the road.

Ken Ross · March 23rd, 2007, 06:12 AM

These autofocus reports are somewhat concerning. I'll know later today if my unit has the same issue. I have seen reports from people that claim theirs are fine and they don't have this issue.

Chris Hurd · March 23rd, 2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorry Smyth

The HV20... in no way, though it delivers pro image quality, is it a pro or semi-pro tool.

I would say that this is a very accurate assessment. Canon has never positioned it as anything other than a consumer camcorder. Those who were hoping it would be more than that have had, in my opinion, some unrealistic expectations.

John Godden · March 23rd, 2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorry Smyth

>>>>snip
2) Just like the HV10, the lack of a basic exposure compensation feature during autoexposure (+ or - one or two F/stops) is absolutely inadmissible... even the upcoming TX1 has it (!!!)... and no, I am not talking about the basic variable exposure lock button because the only holds an exposure value in place while, if you zoom in or out or pan enough for lighting condition to change enough, you'll get instantly an over or under exposed picture.
>>>>snip

Wow......wow.....wow: I'm really dissapointed to read this. :-(

Exposure comp is a VERY-VERY basic function and I can't imagine using a P&S camcorder without it. Very :-(

JohnG

Ken Ross · March 23rd, 2007, 08:36 AM

Well let's hold on a minute. There ARE compensations in the custom menu for 'brightness' and 'contrast' overrides. These allow you to adjust from normal to +1 or -1. Now I'm not 100% sure what these adjustments actually control, but I can tell you they operate continuously and constantly 'dial in' your selection relative to what the camera thinks is nominal. Some long term HV10 users aren't even aware of this feature, but it's there.

But I'm always amazed that no matter what a manufacturer puts in a consumer cam, there are always comments that it should have included this or that. As Chris said, it IS a consumer camera that just happens to shoot pro-grade video.

Mike Teutsch · March 23rd, 2007, 08:47 AM

As mentioned earlier, this is not a PRO camera! It is a consummer camera with a VERY VERY big and usefull side benifit-----it can be used as a deck for the other Canon HDV camcorders.

Sure, many will buy it to use as a personal HD camcorder and I'm sure they will love it!!! But, it will sell exceptionally well with all who have the higher level Canon HDV cameras for use as a deck and that's EXACTLY Canon's game plan and it's a winner!

I get a deck for use with my XLH1, I get a small lightweight camera that can easilly go anywhere with me, and I get a very acceptable second camera for most shoots I do.

So, if you do HDV weddings, you could get two b-cams to use in say a locked down position somewhere, (with or without an operator, and w/o focus worries), you hold your higher level HDV camcorder and have a three camera shoot for just over $2,000 in extra camera costs! What a deal!

How about a low budget music video? Same deal, b-footage from two additional cameras at little cost. Screw the focus and the sound!!!!

If you are thinking about this camera as your prime #1 pro camera, forget it! But, even with minor consummer camera type issues, this camera seems to have one hell of a great picture and that will suit me just fine.

As Chris said, let's be realistic here.

JM2cents----Mike

Alan Dunkel · March 23rd, 2007, 08:58 AM

..it is in the setup, then it doesn't adjust instantly anymore. Since it is a consumer camera, it was setup by default in a few ways I changed, that was one of them and also I switched on the audio level, zebra and grid which were all nice of canon to include. Truly the best true 24fps 1080p consumer camera I have or could locate at any price. lol
Regards, Alan

Mike Horrigan · March 23rd, 2007, 09:16 AM

Awesome!

Amateur filmmakers (like myself) will also eat up this camera. Great bang for the buck, nobody should expect more than that.

Mike

John Godden · March 23rd, 2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

Well let's hold on a minute. There ARE compensations in the custom menu for 'brightness' and 'contrast' overrides. These allow you to adjust from normal to +1 or -1.

Some long term HV10 users aren't even aware of this feature, but it's there.

Can someone who owns a HV20 please confirm if it has some version of automatic exposure compensation.

It's a consumer camcorder and it should have this function.

Thanks
JohnG

Ken Ross · March 23rd, 2007, 10:28 AM

John, I looked at the HV20 manual and it's exactly like the HV10. There is a 'Custom' picture menu that's accessible from the main menu and there you will find adjustments for color, sharpness, brightness and contrast. All of these will constantly dial in your preference relative to the camera's 'decision'.

To check it out, look at P.52 of the manual under the heading of "custom".

Lorry Smyth · March 23rd, 2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

Well let's hold on a minute. There ARE compensations in the custom menu for 'brightness' and 'contrast' overrides. These allow you to adjust from normal to +1 or -1.

Yes, the HV10 also has this feature but it is burried deep enough on the menu and sub-menus not to make it practical to use during shooting and, both the HV10 and HV20 tens to overexpose during auto operation and the tweaking range in the submenu is not enough to avoid white clipping in many circumstances.

John Godden · March 23rd, 2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

John, I looked at the HV20 manual and it's exactly like the HV10. There is a 'Custom' picture menu that's accessible from the main menu and there you will find adjustments for color, sharpness, brightness and contrast. All of these will constantly dial in your preference relative to the camera's 'decision'.

To check it out, look at P.52 of the manual under the heading of "custom".

Ken

Much thanks for the follow-up comments.

Regards
JohnG

March 23rd, 2007, 01:24 AM	#19
Lorry Smyth Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Fracisco, CA Posts: 49	Got Mine Today! I got mine today. I have to report my initial impressions of image quality are simply stunning. This level of performance (and feature set) at this price point was simply un thinkable just a year ago. I've attached it to the Sony DSR-60 external HDV recorder and everything works like a charm (except remote trigger via the camera's button which I expected so the recording has to be started and stopped directly from the Sony HDR-60... no biggie). 24p image quality (aside some obvious less dynamic range and less than a fraction of manual image control possibilities) beats hands down my Panny HVX200. So far my two disappointments: 1) Yes, the autofocus does not stay locked during zooming. Whether this is purely an optical issue or electronically a lack of sync between continuously auto focus adjustment while zooming that possibly can be fixed via a firmware upgrade or not, I do not know, but, it does NOT look right to me at all. 2) Just like the HV10, the lack of a basic exposure compensation feature during autoexposure (+ or - one or two F/stops) is absolutely inadmissible... even the upcoming TX1 has it (!!!)... and no, I am not talking about the basic variable exposure lock button because the only holds an exposure value in place while, if you zoom in or out or pan enough for lighting condition to change enough, you'll get instantly an over or under exposed picture. So, the bottom line so far... as a "consumer" grade HD camera that shoots 24p, this baby is a monumental leap forward and hands down, Canon has produced one of the most exciting cameras on the market. As to aspiring to play in the "prosumer" market, I am not convinced. The HV20 is the most exciting toy of this year so far, but in no way, though it delivers pro image quality, is it a pro or semi-pro tool. For the price you can't beat it and, if Canon keeps on its own footsteps of rapidly improving their products, if the next-gen HV30 or 40 or 50 has as many improvements as the HV20 got from its HV10 counterpart, we're in for a truly exciting product line down the road.

March 23rd, 2007, 08:47 AM	#24
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	As mentioned earlier, this is not a PRO camera! It is a consummer camera with a VERY VERY big and usefull side benifit-----it can be used as a deck for the other Canon HDV camcorders. Sure, many will buy it to use as a personal HD camcorder and I'm sure they will love it!!! But, it will sell exceptionally well with all who have the higher level Canon HDV cameras for use as a deck and that's EXACTLY Canon's game plan and it's a winner! I get a deck for use with my XLH1, I get a small lightweight camera that can easilly go anywhere with me, and I get a very acceptable second camera for most shoots I do. So, if you do HDV weddings, you could get two b-cams to use in say a locked down position somewhere, (with or without an operator, and w/o focus worries), you hold your higher level HDV camcorder and have a three camera shoot for just over $2,000 in extra camera costs! What a deal! How about a low budget music video? Same deal, b-footage from two additional cameras at little cost. Screw the focus and the sound!!!! If you are thinking about this camera as your prime #1 pro camera, forget it! But, even with minor consummer camera type issues, this camera seems to have one hell of a great picture and that will suit me just fine. As Chris said, let's be realistic here. JM2cents----Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

March 23rd, 2007, 08:58 AM	#25
Alan Dunkel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 59	It is easy to change IAF to regular AF ..it is in the setup, then it doesn't adjust instantly anymore. Since it is a consumer camera, it was setup by default in a few ways I changed, that was one of them and also I switched on the audio level, zebra and grid which were all nice of canon to include. Truly the best true 24fps 1080p consumer camera I have or could locate at any price. lol Regards, Alan

March 23rd, 2007, 09:16 AM	#26
Mike Horrigan Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ottawa Canada Posts: 755	Awesome! Amateur filmmakers (like myself) will also eat up this camera. Great bang for the buck, nobody should expect more than that. Mike __________________ My short films... The Interview & Calls From The Führerbunker

March 22nd, 2007, 09:43 PM	#17
Bob Thompson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 340	Maybe a quick way to disable Instant Autofocus would be to cover the sensor with your hand and then the camera may revert to normal autofocus - Just an idea Bob

March 23rd, 2007, 06:12 AM	#20
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	These autofocus reports are somewhat concerning. I'll know later today if my unit has the same issue. I have seen reports from people that claim theirs are fine and they don't have this issue.

March 23rd, 2007, 08:36 AM	#23
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Well let's hold on a minute. There ARE compensations in the custom menu for 'brightness' and 'contrast' overrides. These allow you to adjust from normal to +1 or -1. Now I'm not 100% sure what these adjustments actually control, but I can tell you they operate continuously and constantly 'dial in' your selection relative to what the camera thinks is nominal. Some long term HV10 users aren't even aware of this feature, but it's there. But I'm always amazed that no matter what a manufacturer puts in a consumer cam, there are always comments that it should have included this or that. As Chris said, it IS a consumer camera that just happens to shoot pro-grade video.

March 23rd, 2007, 10:28 AM	#28
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	John, I looked at the HV20 manual and it's exactly like the HV10. There is a 'Custom' picture menu that's accessible from the main menu and there you will find adjustments for color, sharpness, brightness and contrast. All of these will constantly dial in your preference relative to the camera's 'decision'. To check it out, look at P.52 of the manual under the heading of "custom".