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Old March 26th, 2007, 10:26 AM   #1
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Cine mode settings?

Hi -

I just got my HV20 from a local store here in Boston, and I am extremely impressed with my test footage (though sometimes there are some weird ripple artifacts that seem to be related to motion).

A question - I am surprised that the Cine Mode is mutually exclusive with the other "P" Flexible Recording Programs (P, Tv and Av) - page 46. Does anyone know what the settings of Cine Mode are so they can be reproduced using the Custom option of Image Effects?

Thanks,
Kevin
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Old March 26th, 2007, 12:02 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Samborn View Post
Cine Mode is mutually exclusive with the other "P" Flexible Recording Programs (P, Tv and Av)
So "P" is all auto and the camera sets everything, "Tv" is shutter priority where you pick the shutter and the camera sets the aperture, "Av" is aperture priority where you pick the aperture and the camera picks shutter speed. That's correct, yes?

So the "Cine Mode" is something you select instead of any of these other options? Does that mean everything is auto like in the "P" mode? Since you actually have the camera, can you tell us if there's any way to change the aperture or shutter speed when in the Cine mode?

My guess, and this is only a guess, is that the Cine Mode might lock the shutter speed at some kind of preset and then picks an aperture for you based on the amount of light. I'm guessing this because of the motion effects caused by high shutter speeds and the fact that this "Cine Mode" is going for a look that probably doesn't mesh well with a high shutter speed.

Anybody have more info on this?
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Old March 26th, 2007, 12:29 PM   #3
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OT a little bit, but...

Kevin wrote

"though sometimes there are some weird ripple artifacts that seem to be related to motion"

This sounds like the same problem that was addressed in another thread. Is this really a serious problem?
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Old March 26th, 2007, 01:10 PM   #4
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OK, two things: regarding Cine Mode, actually, that's exactly my question. I think that Cine Mode is a bunch of presets.

You can definitely lock the shutter in 24p, it specifically explains that on the same pages in the manual - 46 & 47. However, it appears that the separately available Cine Mode adjusts various additional settings in addition to shutter & aperture. So, I'm wondering what the settings are if you want to have the same color look, but independently lock the shutter or aperture.

As far as the ripple, unfortunately, I can't post a sample right now. But, I had my camera on a tripod and there is a strange wave that passes through the image for a split second. I'm willing to live with it for now. If it turns out to be a defect, I'm sure we'll soon know. When I get my computer back, I'll see if I can scan and post a sample.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 02:11 PM   #5
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Kevin, here is the thread on the OIS problem. Watch the video clip. Seems like this ripple wave effect is similar to what can be seen in the clip.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=89865

thanks
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Old March 26th, 2007, 02:45 PM   #6
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Hmmm... maybe its similar to the first shot. The others seem MUCH more severe.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 02:51 PM   #7
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Is this the ol' "rolling shutter" issue perhaps? I noticed the "vertical stretch" effect on one of those clips from the other thread... you have to be pretty well stabilized and avoid movements vertically through the frame with HD...

It ain't as easy to shoot as SD... lots of "new" techniques to learn, and new "features" to deal with... gotta love technology!

DB>)
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Old March 26th, 2007, 04:09 PM   #8
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Don't confuse Cine Mode with 24P mode. You can adjust shutter and aperture in 24P mode.

According to the manual (p46) Cine Mode means "the camcorder adjusts various image settings to give a cinematic look to your recordings." It's not related to the 24P function of the camera.

In keeping with Kevin's original question at the top of the thread: Does anyone know: What are the settings of Cine Mode? Or what are the adjustments that Cine Mode makes to the image?
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Old March 26th, 2007, 07:28 PM   #9
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That's right Rob, the way I understand it is: On P or program you have four choices.....P, Tv, Av and Cine Mode.

This is different from the recording standard which you also have four choices......HDV, HDV24p, DVwide 16.9, DVnormal 4.3

You have the choice to pair up the HDV24p recording standard with the Cine Mode preset (maybe a combination of saturation, sharpness, constrast/brightness) to give you that "cinematic look" which in laymen terms as I see it means Less color saturation, softer image, Less contrast Less video enhancing artifacts, maybe wider Dynamic range look of Cinema Mode.

You may also choose not to pair up the HDV24p recording standard with the Cine Mode in which case you will be dealing with straight 24p without the enhancing of the preset.

They are however all adjustable see Manual page 46 bottom right.
Hope this helps
Thanks,
Luis
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Old March 26th, 2007, 09:36 PM   #10
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Cine Mode is quite silky

I just unpacked my HV20 and started playing with it. I have it connected to my monitor and have been aiming it out the window at ponderosa pines and aspen in late day lighting. Switching to cine mode gives the image a very smooth film-like look. I expected it to yield an overly contrasty image but it doesn't. I think it's very professional-looking from what I have seen so far. I am not sure I have figured out the proper way to remove pulldown, so I haven't tried 24p and the cine mode together.

Regards,

Pat
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Old March 26th, 2007, 10:02 PM   #11
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If cine-mode means that sharpening and saturation is turned down and that's it then sign me up! I've read that you lose image detail but in a couple days I'll be able to see for myself.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 10:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Unck View Post
Don't confuse Cine Mode with 24P mode.
That's exactly what I erroneously did (conflated Cine Mode with 24P). Knowing that it's a consumer camera and then reading the original post, I thought that was what the situation was. But I'm very happy to be mistaken. :)
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Old March 26th, 2007, 11:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Vasher View Post
If cine-mode means that sharpening and saturation is turned down and that's it then sign me up! I've read that you lose image detail but in a couple days I'll be able to see for myself.
Well,.. Wes I was looking for an answer too and I think I found it, to my surprise of all places CamcorderInfo, if you click the performance tab of the review you will find among other things a good explanation of what I thought is the Cinema Mode, in fact is preset#8 of the more expensive HX-A1 HD.

I was surprised for CamcorderInfo very unbiassed report and good explanation of the workings of the camera and 24p. Very different from what they reported on the HV-10. Click the PERFORMANCE tab.

Just posted today, here is the link:http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-Review.htm

Thanks
Luis
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Old March 26th, 2007, 11:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis A. Diaz View Post
you will find... a good explanation of what I thought is the Cinema Mode, in fact is preset#8 of the more expensive HX-A1 HD.
Where have you been, Luis? I first wrote about that long ago, way back on January 31:

http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/canon/hv20overview.php

"There's a Cine color mode available as well, which can be used with or without 24p. It's actually based on one of the Custom Presets included with the Canon XH A1 and G1 camcorders, number 8 (Cine.V.) The parameters of that preset are Gamma: Cine 1, Knee: Low, Black: Stretch, Sharpness: -4, Color Matrix: Cine 1, Color Gain: -20, Color Phase: +5, Red-Blue: -5, Green-Red: -5, Blue-Red: +5, and Red-Green: +12. When the HV20 begins shipping in April, it'll be interesting to see how this Cine color option matches up with Custom Preset 8 from an XH A1."
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Old March 27th, 2007, 12:50 AM   #15
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I think there is a loss of definition with the cine preset - I think I am more inclined to shoot without it and use magic bullet et al in post
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