Cannot capture HV20 HDV into Ulead programs at DVinfo.net

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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
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Old April 6th, 2007, 04:35 PM   #1
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Cannot capture HV20 HDV into Ulead programs

I am wondering if anybody has found a way to directly capture into Ulead Video Studio 10+ or Ulead MovieFactory 6+, both of which make very nice HD-DVDs and fully support the Sony HDV camcorders but apparently do not support Canon Hv20s. I can use HDSplit to externally capture the HDV as an .m2t transport stream, and also can use Vegas 7 to do the same, but wondered if anybody has any tricks to substitute drivers or other means to get these Ulead apps to work directly.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Larry
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Old April 7th, 2007, 01:01 PM   #2
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Do you have the full version or the demo? Do you have the HV10 patch? You can download it from the Ulead's website. I'd really like to know how well it works with the HV20.

I only have the demo and cannot apply the HV10 patch to see whether that allows the HV20 to import video. I really like Ulead's software, but I'm holding off on buying it just yet until I know for certain it works with the HV20.
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Old April 7th, 2007, 01:57 PM   #3
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I can capture my HV10 in Ulead MSPro8, DVDMF6+ (trial), and Sony Vegas7 (trial) just fine- although only Vegas captures M2T native. I was not impressed by DVDMF6+ trial at all, no tape transport controls, no file naming, no split, yuck- although the video preview was very smooth :) and it will do neat auto-timestamp-subtitles for DV video (something I'd asked for in mspro/dvdws.)

I haven't tried Ulead VideoStudio since the HV10 patch won't apply to trial version.

** Note: Ulead converts the HDV m2t transport stream to MPG during capture (or importing), so you lose timestamp/scene split info. You can still split by content, but it's slow.

MSPro8 can convert MPG2 HDV back to M2T/TS OK to record back to the camera, but the timestamp info is gone (I am assuming the patch to Videostudio allows for the mpg->ts conversion, not actual M2T native capture/editing.)

The latest HDVSplit .077beta works fine to capture now, if you want to capture scene-split files. Ulead will convert the m2t files to mpg (so double space), but at least the scenes are split.

If you want to capture&edit native M2T files w/ built in scene splitting, I think Sony Vegas 7 (latest patch) is the only one so far (the trial version works great.) Editing m2t native seems faster than MSPro8.
However, it means another $400+ blown on a new NLE, and a lot of re-learning UI & workflow...
so I'm on the fence.

I really got used to Ulead MSPro and would love to keep using it, but the M2T->MPG conversion and loss of timestamp metadata is really a killer. At least w/ new HDVSplit I can get the files split at capture.
So far there is not much indication Corel (who recently bought Intervideo, who had bought Ulead earlier) is intending to continue MSPro or DVDWS support eg enhancements/patches, including a patch for Vista compatibility, so that is another downer.

So I'm getting by w/ Ulead for now, w/ hdvsplit, but I'm really yearning for native M2T capture/editing and continued MSPro8 support :(
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Old April 7th, 2007, 10:16 PM   #4
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Thanks for the recommendation and the Ulead patch designed for the HV10 also not only works for the HV20, but fixes both Movie Factory 6+ and also Video Studio 1- Plus.

I am entirely delighted that both programs are fixed with a simple 4 megabyte download. I am a bit surprised that MF6 Plus which only came out recently, long after the HV10 was introduced, still not only requires a patch to work with the HV20 but furthermore can only be installed if you also happen to own and have VideoStudio 10 installed. This is a real problem for MF6 Plus buyers who want to capture from their Canon ca,corders and have no way to apply the patch unless they also own VideoStudio 10.

Getting my Vegas 7.0d to work is still unreliable and I'm not sure why. The external vidcap program does not work at all, but the internal capture sometimes works and other times does not. Very strange.....

Thanks so very much for the Ulead patch recommendation.

Larry
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Old April 8th, 2007, 12:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Horwitz View Post
Thanks for the recommendation and the Ulead patch designed for the HV10 also not only works for the HV20, but fixes both Movie Factory 6+ and also Video Studio 10 Plus.

I am entirely delighted that both programs are fixed with a simple 4 megabyte download. I am a bit surprised that MF6 Plus which only came out recently, long after the HV10 was introduced, still not only requires a patch to work with the HV20 but furthermore can only be installed if you also happen to own and have VideoStudio 10 installed. This is a real problem for MF6 Plus buyers who want to capture from their Canon camcorders and have no way to apply the patch unless they also own VideoStudio 10.

Getting my Vegas 7.0d to work is still unreliable and I'm not sure why. The external vidcap program does not work at all, but the internal capture sometimes works and other times does not. Very strange.....

Thanks so very much for the Ulead patch recommendation.

Larry
I'm still a bit confused. What's actually not working (if anything), and what's actually fixed by the patch, in which program?

The trial of DVDMF6+ I downloaded last week, captures HV10 HDV just fine, no patch needed. There is still the problem of M2T->MPG conversion which I think is a Ulead "feature" not really a patch fix...?
I don't have either "full" program, only MSPro8, so I have not tried applying the patch.

If anyone does apply the Ulead HV10 patch, can they clarify what it does fix?
Does it enable timestamp scene-splitting/detection? Or is it just proper "driver" support to recognize the HV10 and allow writing back to tape (what it seemed to say on the website)?
So far all the docs and feature lists seem to be clear that no HDV scene detection or timestamp is supported.
So far the M2T external capture and import/conversion into MSpro8 is kind of a pain, now that I've tried some more today w/ lots of files :(

My Vegas7.0d trial seemed to work fine so far, w/ limited captures... I am using the internal not external, seem to recall something about that on their forums...

if you have both, I'd suggest using Vegas7 to capture & edit native M2T w/ scene detection etc (especially if you are already used to it for NLE), then export an edited HDV MPEG file for each HD-DVD "title" or program, and then use that in DVDMF6+.
The DVDMF6+ editing facilities are pretty limited.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 12:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Horwitz View Post
Thanks for the recommendation and the Ulead patch designed for the HV10 also not only works for the HV20, but fixes both Movie Factory 6+ and also Video Studio 1- Plus.
Thanks for the info! I tried Sony Vegas, but I still liked Ulead Video Studio 10+ more (especially since the Ad Zapper feature works for Media Center .ms-dvr files).

I'll buy VS 10+ now that I know it will work. Thanks!!
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Old April 8th, 2007, 09:57 PM   #7
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Just to clarify as requested above:

My experience with both MF6+ and VS10+ is that both worked fine with Sony HDV camcorders (the HC3 and FX-1) but that neither would work with the Canon HV20 initially. The capture option was not able to identify the fact that an HDV device was present.

Once the VS10+ patch was installed, both programs began immediately recognizing the HV20 and allowing capture internally. All capture features of the programs appear to work as best as I can test.

Regarding Vegas 7.0d.......my experience with the Sony's was also excellent, but again, the HV20 will not work properly. There are no patches or work-arounds I am aware of other than to use an external capture program like HDVSplit. Neither the internal nor the Sony-provided external capture program seem to work.

I did a lot of rebooting, reinstallation, updating of DirectX to the latest (version 9) release, etc., and for a brief period of time Vegas 7 did work using the internal capture option. For reasons unknown, it fails to work about 99 percent of the time, but after disconnecting the Canon HV20 and plugging it back into the Firewire port, rebooting, etc. I can once in a while get a capture to take place. Most of the time I get "Loading Driver" or "Device Error" messages, and the program sits there for many minutes essentially hung.

Larry
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Old April 8th, 2007, 10:24 PM   #8
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I don't know if this is helpful, but for vegas 7 you can only capture hdv via the internal (within the program) ap. You can capture normal dv with the external capture ap.
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Old April 9th, 2007, 10:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Horwitz View Post
Just to clarify as requested above:

My experience with both MF6+ and VS10+ is that both worked fine with Sony HDV camcorders (the HC3 and FX-1) but that neither would work with the Canon HV20 initially. The capture option was not able to identify the fact that an HDV device was present.

Once the VS10+ patch was installed, both programs began immediately recognizing the HV20 and allowing capture internally. All capture features of the programs appear to work as best as I can test.

Regarding Vegas 7.0d.......my experience with the Sony's was also excellent, but again, the HV20 will not work properly. There are no patches or work-arounds I am aware of other than to use an external capture program like HDVSplit. Neither the internal nor the Sony-provided external capture program seem to work.

I did a lot of rebooting, reinstallation, updating of DirectX to the latest (version 9) release, etc., and for a brief period of time Vegas 7 did work using the internal capture option. For reasons unknown, it fails to work about 99 percent of the time, but after disconnecting the Canon HV20 and plugging it back into the Firewire port, rebooting, etc. I can once in a while get a capture to take place. Most of the time I get "Loading Driver" or "Device Error" messages, and the program sits there for many minutes essentially hung.

Larry
Thanks for the clarification, Larry. Maybe there is something different about the HV20 vs HV10 OS/driver wise?? (seems very strange but)... since DVDMF6+ and vegas7.0d trial version captures seemed to work fine for my HV10. Maybe I didn't try enough/long captures to hit the same issues.

one question re patched vs10+ and dvdmf6+:
they still capture as "plain" MPG2, not M2T, correct? and there is no split-by-scene or timestamp display? in dvdmf6+ the option to create auto-subtitles per timestamp metadata is disabled?

thanks for the fdbk!
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Old April 9th, 2007, 12:32 PM   #10
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This is an interesting exchange I have had with Sony's tech support person (Krishna) regarding my recent Vegas 7.0d experiences:

Response (Krishna R.) 04/09/2007 10:21 AM
Greetings Larry,

Thank you for replying. The Fujitsu chipset used on Canon and JVC cameras does not properly share the 1394 bus in regards to data and command transfer.

This is a known issue on Canon and JVC's part. The Fujitsu chipset used on these cameras does not relinquish control of the firewire bus, making data transfer to other devices on that bus impossible.

This is also the cause of Video Capture becoming non-responsive for short periods of time when using these cameras.

It is suggested that you contact technical support at Canon or JVC to inquire about this issue being resolved in future revisions of their cameras.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have follow up questions or need further assistance with this issue, please update this incident.

Have a great day.
Sincerely,

Krishna R.
Technical Support
Sony Media Software
1617 Sherman Ave
Madison, WI 53704




Customer (Larry Horwitz) 04/09/2007 12:28 PM

Thank you again Krishna for your reply. I understand your comment regarding support for the Fujitsu Firewire controller chip used in Canon and JVC cameras since I have been a software developer and have written assembly language hardware device drivers myself. I need to ask you why the Canon HV20 camera capture works perfectly with freeware programs like HDVSplit and low cost commercial programs like Ulead's $69 MovieFactory 6+, and yet Sony's very expensive Vegas 7.0d supposedly requires a fix by Canon and JVC to make their cameras work reliably.

I think that Sony's ownership of Vegas 7.0d may have a lot to do with the true reason why my Sony HDV camcorders work fine but that Canon and JVC do not.

I urge you, on behalf of loyal Vegas owners for many years, like myself, to please encourage Sony technical people to implement their drivers properly so that Canon, JVC, and other video users will be ablke to use the excellent Vegas software correctly.

Very truly,

Larry Horwitz
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Old April 9th, 2007, 01:13 PM   #11
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Colin,

Sorry for a bit of a delay in my response but I wanted to go back and check both Ulead programs to be sure my answers were correct.

MF6+ does not appear to offer capture options on the capture pane, other than full tape versus fixed duration, which appears to work properly. VS10+ does have split clips as an option, but nowhere do I see a timecode option. In fact, all of the options including split clips are greyed-out / disabled, except the ability to "Save to Library".

Hope this answers your question.

Larry
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Old April 9th, 2007, 05:52 PM   #12
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Good reply to Vegas customer support Larry!
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Old April 9th, 2007, 07:08 PM   #13
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I have had no problems capturing to Vegas with the HV20. I capture and edit in vegas, export as M2V/WAV.... which is then imported to Pinnacle studio 10.7 where I burn HD DVD.... It works perfect.

Granted I have not tried any Ulead products lately.
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Old April 9th, 2007, 10:45 PM   #14
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I may have too much video editing software installed on this machine, making the Vegas 7.0d software a bit more flakey than it would be otherwise. I've settled on using HDVSplit to capture and then do all the normal editing with Vegas 7.0d. I'm hoping that the driver issue eventually becomes resolved but I have a good work-around in the meantime. The fact that some folks are able to capture properly with the HV-20 and Vegas 7.0d leads me to believe that my problem may be just on this machine. I have not seen other complaints of the same issue as I am having, although the HV-20 may be too new for any major complaints to be posted yet.

Thanks to all for suggestions and help.

Larry
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Old April 10th, 2007, 09:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Horwitz View Post
Colin,

Sorry for a bit of a delay in my response but I wanted to go back and check both Ulead programs to be sure my answers were correct.

MF6+ does not appear to offer capture options on the capture pane, other than full tape versus fixed duration, which appears to work properly. VS10+ does have split clips as an option, but nowhere do I see a timecode option. In fact, all of the options including split clips are greyed-out / disabled, except the ability to "Save to Library".

Hope this answers your question.

Larry
Thanks Larry, that indeed helps... hoped the patch would enable the split-by-scene (w/o an image/content frame-by-frame search)... sounds like it's still the same converted MPG capture.
Glad HDVsplit is working a bit better than vegas, I'll have to try some more test Vegas captures to compare, although my trial has already expired. (Maybe I'll try installing on my video boot partition... that's how I keep software conflicts down for video)
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