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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


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Old April 16th, 2007, 12:42 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Keith Knuth View Post
Wow. The Aja product looks great.
Another manufacturer should be able to work out a firewire or HDMI connected piece of hardware that has the Cineform Codec built in (instead of the Apple ProRes 422 Codec). I would think a device like that without all the bells & whistles of the AJA product could sell for under $1000. Again, such a product would appeal to the low-budget film producer as well as some in the pro-sumer crowd.
An io HD mini if you will. Leave out the SDI and XLR and sell it for under a grand. Perfect for editing/finishing HDV and AVCHD.

I'd prefer ProRes as I'm a FCP user anyway, as long as it's as good as they're hyping it to be.
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Old April 17th, 2007, 02:45 PM   #32
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I don't know exactly, but check their website: http://cineform.com/products/default.htm
HDMI input from the BlackMagic intensity is supported in their latest round of updates, as is HD-SDI w/o timecode. You have to go to Prospect to get the timecode options.

No slouches those Cineform guys ;)
-Steve
I agree! I checked out their site right after my last posting, and am very happy to see that they have added non-firewire injest options(among other things) all at a new lower price point. They have made HQ prosumer HD workable since day one (I started with Premiere 6.5 and ApectHD and a JVC HD10) and now Mac users will soon be able to understand why so many PC users have loved shooting HDV, with support for every cam and frame rate.
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Old April 17th, 2007, 08:37 PM   #33
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As far as what is going out from HV20 HDMI port - 4:2:2 1920 x 1080i or that crippled HDV crap - Just wonder why not to ask directly at Canon? Or they have info embargo on it or what?
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Old April 17th, 2007, 10:10 PM   #34
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As far as what is going out from HV20 HDMI port - 4:2:2 1920 x 1080i or that crippled HDV crap - Just wonder why not to ask directly at Canon? Or they have info embargo on it or what?
We're going to find out sooner or later, hopefully sooner.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 09:07 PM   #35
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1920x1080 to 1440x1080 is the result of that horrible, evil, good for nothing, I can't believe so many people do such amazing work with it, HDV codec. HDMI is a live feed, and in being so is the full 1920x1080 spec as that is what the sensor is, correct?
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Old April 18th, 2007, 09:33 PM   #36
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HDMI can support all kinds of rates and resolutions, as it is backward compatible with DVI-D. In principle, it could be 48 bits per pixel, 1920x1080p @ 120 fps.

In the HV20 and most of the small HDV cams, it seems to go out as 1920x1080 4:2:2 24 bit.

-Steve
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Old April 19th, 2007, 02:39 AM   #37
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In the HV20 and most of the small HDV cams, it seems to go out as 1920x1080 4:2:2 24 bit.
-Steve
Are you suggesting a there is an optional live feed resolution offered by other small HDV cam that is not 720p? I don't know what "most" means, but as long as we are distancing ourselves from that crippled HDV crap it's all good right?! I guess the lighting in Praha is a little hazy?
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Old April 19th, 2007, 03:39 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Steven White View Post
HDMI can support all kinds of rates and resolutions, as it is backward compatible with DVI-D. In principle, it could be 48 bits per pixel, 1920x1080p @ 120 fps.

In the HV20 and most of the small HDV cams, it seems to go out as 1920x1080 4:2:2 24 bit.

-Steve
NOT if you are playing back from tape, then HDMI is nothing more than fire wire, just a digital connection to transfer 4:2:0 at 1440x1080.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 10:53 AM   #39
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NOT if you are playing back from tape, then HDMI is nothing more than fire wire, just a digital connection to transfer 4:2:0 at 1440x1080.
I don't think this is quite correct.

HDMI is not a digital data connection like Firewire. Via Firewire you are essentially copying bit-for-bit the data on the miniDV tape encoded in the HDV codec.

HDMI is a digital display connection, and so it is broadcasting uncompressed (or, if playing back from a tape, "de-compressed") footage at the specified 1920x1080 4:2:2 rate. This means that in-camera the video is being decoded from 1440x1080 4:2:0 and up-sampled to 1920x1080 4:2:2. There's no more actual information there, but there is some additional synthesized information. Depending on 4:2:0 artefact reduction circuitry used in the 4:2:2 upsample, there could actually be a boost (or a decrease) in quality attained this way that is hardware specific.

When capturing via HDMI live, you are bypassing the HDV compression and colour decimation to the degree that this is possible out the ass-end of the DSP. If the colour and gamma correction done in the DSP outputs only to 1440x1080 4:2:0 before sending it the MPEG-2 algorithm, you are only saving on the HDV artefacts and GOP structure. Still, uncompressed 1440x1080 4:2:0 is much better than the MPEG-2 followup.

From what I've read, there is evidence that processing is done at full 1920x1080 4:2:2, and that what is broadcast on HDMI live is indeed significantly higher quality than the HDV output. I believe this applies to all the HDV cameras with an HDMI output, but someone would have to do careful case-by-case testing to be sure.

-Steve
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Old April 19th, 2007, 04:34 PM   #40
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It's full resolution uncompressed 4:2:2 full resolution from all HDV cams whether it is HDMI, SDI, or analog Component out. Except for the JVC HD1/10 which is only 480p60 component out. Of course all of these cams are all 8-bit.
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