Intensity doesn't support HV20 - Page 7 at DVinfo.net

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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


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Old May 10th, 2007, 09:39 PM   #91
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Thanks Terence, Plays great on my computer... brought it into PP2 and it edits fine also..
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Old May 10th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #92
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Terence,

I noticed you only used Medium quality, while still very good, it is the second lowest setting of five. High was the old "best" of Aspect HD and Connect HD, now there is Filmscan 1 & 2. High is the recommended setting for live capture -- Filmscan1 for extreme keying projects -- Filmscan 2 for playing tricks on friends and asking them to point out which is uncomressed and which is compressed. Don't every use Filmscan 2 for real projects you will be just wasting diskspace. :)
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Old May 10th, 2007, 10:29 PM   #93
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oh, he told me he recorded to high quality. ill have to go kick his a** now :)

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Old May 10th, 2007, 10:45 PM   #94
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and offline?
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Old May 10th, 2007, 11:14 PM   #95
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offline?

if you mean the video, it should still be up.

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Old May 10th, 2007, 11:35 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terence Krueger View Post
offline?

if you mean the video, it should still be up.

terence

No P2k has an Offline option under FilmScan 2
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Old May 11th, 2007, 12:50 AM   #97
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"I noticed you only used Medium quality, while still very good"

he confirmed that he used the setting labeled "best". if "best" is 4th from the actual best quality, perhaps you need to do some renaming of the settings :)

in my initial observations though, at the setting used, its roughly the same datarate as the black magic, and id rate it as notably inferior quality. large flat colour areas, like the plant leaves and even his face seem blotchy, the bm codec does not have this artifacting. (dont have a sample clip, sorry)

knowing a good bit about compression and codecs, i think each one will excell in different areas, though cineform has as you say, higher quality setting with the sacrifice of datarate while the black magic codec is rather fixed.

anyway, i think this discussion has served its purpose, the canon hv20 works with the black magic intensity, and cineform neoHD can remove 3:2 pulldown on the fly. so people have (at least) 3 choices when using the hv20 and intensity together. choice is good.

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Old May 11th, 2007, 01:40 AM   #98
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Thanks for posting that video. Could you tell us what your hv20 settings were? cine? contrast? i assume the sharpening is in camera not somewhere else down the line? could you do some moving footage? i mean mpeg2 can do still tripod footage of someone talking, how about some high motion or rippling water or something :)

This is exciting, I've been waiting for intensity to support the hv20. Looks like it might be about time to build that portable capture computer ive been wanting to build...
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Old May 11th, 2007, 06:30 AM   #99
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Terence has Blackmagic attempted to contact you at all? I am still very confused as to why your setup seems to be the only one in the world that is currently working. Obviously you are getting good results, the video looks fantastic. I also know that the BM people are on this thread so I wonder if your working setup could give them any clues on how to get the rest of us up and running with a HV20/Intensity combo.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 09:26 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terence Krueger View Post
anyway, i think this discussion has served its purpose, the canon hv20 works with the black magic intensity...
Umm...That's an overstatement. You could say that YOUR HV20 works with the Intensity.

I don't think there has been a single other report anywhere of another HV20 working with the Intensity. At least from the standpoint of firmware version (thank you for posting yours), you would appear to have the same camcorder as everyone else. You would have to have the same Intensity card and drivers as everyone else.

I think this discussion has had a mystery added to it.

No, the HV20 does not work with the Intensity

Just as Rob here, I have to wonder if anyone from Blackmagic has taken notice of and interest in your claim.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 10:05 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terence Krueger View Post
"I noticed you only used Medium quality, while still very good"

he confirmed that he used the setting labeled "best". if "best" is 4th from the actual best quality, perhaps you need to do some renaming of the settings :)

in my initial observations though, at the setting used, its roughly the same datarate as the black magic, and id rate it as notably inferior quality. large flat colour areas, like the plant leaves and even his face seem blotchy, the bm codec does not have this artifacting. (dont have a sample clip, sorry).
Sorry, that doesn't make sense. Please do your own tests if you can, rather than rely on a third party who doesn't know what setting he used. We have no quality mode called "best" and we have never used those terms as would lead people astray. We have quality names Low, Medium, High, Filmscan1 and Filmscan2, so that user will not automatic click FS2, they mostly use High. Even at "Medium" quality we out perform MJPEG is all measurable characters, visual quality, PSNR, reduced ringing etc. Wavelet is a superior compression technology than DCT, particularly at these datarates. Please re-read and observe the MJPEG compression artifacts here http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....7&postcount=59. Also I must point while some might like the ringing look of MJPEG at 10:1 compression, as it adds a dithering noise not in the source, others will benefit from choosing quality other than our second lowest and capture more of the information delivered by the camera. I haven't used Medium for any project in years -- it was handy for really slow systems. At Filmscan 1 (around 5:1 or 6:1) we are have quality than exceeds a Sony SRW1, pretty much the industry standard for digital acquisition. The whole point of using live HMDI capture is to get a great looking image, so please do some experiments that try to do that.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #102
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"We have no quality mode called "best" and we have never used those terms as would lead people astray"

indeed, you are right :) but he said he didnt use medium, he used high. at this point i dont care really, the test was to see if the pulldown worked.

anyhow, i find it odd that we are the only people using the hv20 and intensity together. i also find it odd that people adamantly believe it doesnt work and that my setup is something special, yet no other person with this actual setup has said boo, here or anywhere else ive seen (not that ive scoured the net).

if the black magic people are watching this, some sort of comment is in order maybe to reassure potential customers there will be no issues.

anyway, i gotta get back to my pci express box. "i wants" are stacking up :)

terence
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Old May 11th, 2007, 10:03 PM   #103
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Please don't think that we are ganging up on you Terence! I certainly am not at any rate, but within these forums several people have tried and failed with an HV20/intensity setup and indeed the people at Blackmagic have come out very openly and honestly to say that the pair do not work together and that they are working on a fix. I certainly have nothing against your success but like a person cured of an uncurable disease I wonder if the intricacies of your setup hold the answer to getting this to work for everyone.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 10:09 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terence Krueger View Post
"We have no quality mode called "best" and we have never used those terms as would lead people astray"

indeed, you are right :) but he said he didnt use medium, he used high. at this point i dont care really, the test was to see if the pulldown worked.
So that others are not confused: this bit-stream is medium. The quality control settings are embedded in the bit-stream so I can determine what settings where used -- this is a handy debugging tool. Have your tester post a clip at High or better Filmscan 1 -- in front of a greenscreen if he has one. People want to know how well you can pull a key from an HV20.
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Old May 12th, 2007, 05:18 AM   #105
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Hi all,
very interesting thread !
as many others here, we'd like to capture from our HV20 "plugged" to one of our computers (mobile studio like) :
- getting the highest Resolution (High Def)
- if possible in 4:2:2 uncompressed

As long as I have understood, so far, the "best setup" would be to :
- capture in HDMI
- have a BM Intensity (assuming it will work soon with the HV20) inside a powerfull workstation (with a Raid 0 - 4 disks, 16 MB cache,BM says with 8 disks it would be better...)
As we have no computer like this one, it means we would have to spend at least $2000 to have one.

A "cheaper" way (easier to manipulate too), might be to plug one MagmaPCIe+Intensity box to one of our laptop ?
Black Magic says that :
- for a compressed JPEG stream in 1920x1080 : the data rate is 13,19 MB/s
- for an uncompressed 4:2:2 stream in 1920x1080 : the data rate is 120 MB/s
Magma says :
- that the stream between their box and a laptop can reach 200 MB/s
BUT my laptop says (Dell Inspiron) :
- Disk test, Linear speed test : 21,4 MB/s
Please tell me if we can capture uncompressed 4:2:2 with this setup ? I guess we cannot !
maybe it can capture compressed JPEG in HD ?
but is there any real interest to spend 800 $$ for this quality ?

Then, I see that the CineForm apps could help, David please could you explain me where they could be "positioned" in our workflow ?
do they change anything in the acquisition data rate which seems to be the Critical parameter ?

Denis
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