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Old April 28th, 2007, 02:18 PM   #16
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when you refer to changing the aperture with cine mode... do you mean adjust ing the exposure?


and peter... if you use the stick to turn on exposure adjustment I think it seems to lock all the exposure settings to match
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Old April 30th, 2007, 03:02 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ian G. Thompson View Post
This might have been mentioned before but Cinema mode seems to try and keep the shutter at 1/48. It's only when you move your aperter to +1 or -1 that it seems to change your shutter.
Do you mean when in 24p? I believe you can use Cinema mode at 60i or 24p. Since the cinema mode gives the reduced contast/longer tonal range - what is the advantage of combining 24p with this versus just using it at 60i? -Thanks.
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Old April 30th, 2007, 03:15 PM   #18
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Do you mean when in 24p? I believe you can use Cinema mode at 60i or 24p.
Yes in 24p. I have not tried it in 60i as yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Kepen View Post
Since the cinema mode gives the reduced contast/longer tonal range - what is the advantage of combining 24p with this versus just using it at 60i? -Thanks.
..well...(1) Cause it's 24p and (2) I believe it gives you better low light capability while in 24p. What I have noticed is if your are in a decently lit surrounding (where you don't have to manipulate the exposure at all) then it keeps your footage at 1/48 shutter speed. As soon as you toggle the joystick (+ or -) in either direction then that's when the cam tries to compensate and you will notice the effects of the changed shutter speed....ugly .....at least to me.

edit: I'm away from my cam at the moment but I do believe the same rule applies that if you keep the exposure displayed on the screen it should be locked in that position. Maybe someone could verify that......
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Old April 30th, 2007, 03:19 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Josh Reiss View Post
when you refer to changing the aperture with cine mode... do you mean adjust ing the exposure?
Yes...sorry for the confusion.
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Old April 30th, 2007, 11:22 PM   #20
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I'm posting two sets of pics below that demonstrate the dynamic range of the TV mode v. Cinemode. I didn't want to start a new thread on topic, to post these, so I hope this isn't taken as hijacking.. The scene is stream with sun filtering through trees and shrubs, and with direct sunlight on stream. In doing the comparison shots, while taping, used exposure adjust to bring down the "zebras" as much as possible without losing shadow detail.
Attached Thumbnails
HV20 cine mode more dynamic range?-pondtrunktv.jpg   HV20 cine mode more dynamic range?-pondtrunkcinemode.jpg  

HV20 cine mode more dynamic range?-streamrippletvmode.jpg   HV20 cine mode more dynamic range?-streamripplecinemode.jpg  

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Old May 1st, 2007, 05:06 AM   #21
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Nice shots Chris. Many people like the higher contrast of the Shutter and Aperture modes but you lose so much detail.
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Old May 1st, 2007, 06:44 AM   #22
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The good thing is, if you apply a simple "levels adjust" on the blacks to the cinema frame, and compare to the TV mode, the contrast and color is better on cine mode, and still you have no clipping on the lights. Just perfect.

Only thing you could miss in this circumstances on cinema mode maybe a lack of sharpness.
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HV20 cine mode more dynamic range?-streamcomp.jpg  
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Old May 1st, 2007, 11:23 AM   #23
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Ive done some testing on this and have come to the conclusion that I love the cine mode for not blowing out the highlights and the extra dynamic range. For the sharpness issue I use a medium sharpen in Vegas which brings it up to about the same level as the non cine footage.
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Old May 1st, 2007, 10:14 PM   #24
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That's it, you've convinced me to use the cine setting. Thanks for the tests. I automatically started using TV mode, just to have control over shutter speed.. Although probably only need that for slow motion style clips.
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Old May 1st, 2007, 10:43 PM   #25
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From my experience thus far, I'd say its a good option in contrasty extended range situations, but you don't have to shoot it to the exclusion of others. It should be shoot by shoot call. There are times when you will want the "pop" of the other modes...or the extra control..
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Old May 1st, 2007, 11:05 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Fergus Anderson View Post
Ive done some testing on this and have come to the conclusion that I love the cine mode for not blowing out the highlights and the extra dynamic range. For the sharpness issue I use a medium sharpen in Vegas which brings it up to about the same level as the non cine footage.
Is the Cine mode really less sharp? Or is it just the lowered contrast that makes it look less sharp? I can see if you combine it with the 24p mode and there is motion, you will loose sharpness compared to 60i, but I think that is just because of the motion blur caused by the lower 24 frames/second.
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Old May 2nd, 2007, 12:57 AM   #27
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No I think if you compare a static shot in both modes you will see the difference. Apprently the cine mode is based on an A1 preset in which sharpness was -4
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Old May 2nd, 2007, 07:47 AM   #28
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I wasn't able to get the sharpness I wanted, using Vegas in post production, with the Cine setting on the HV20. What filters and settings are people using, who are getting results they are pleased with?

I think non-cine mode with Brightness reduced in the Custom Image effects menu gives a good compromise of sharpness with exposure lattitude. It seems to keep highlights from blowing out, without significantly darkening shadow areas.

As an alternative, I tried increasing colour depth, brightness, sharpness and contrast with Cine Gamma, but it is still soft compared to P Mode.
I attach some images, and a low res JPG from my NIKON D70 SLR for comparison.
This is the HV20 at 25P.


Patrick
Attached Thumbnails
HV20 cine mode more dynamic range?-testp.jpg   HV20 cine mode more dynamic range?-testpcustom.jpg  

HV20 cine mode more dynamic range?-testcine.jpg   HV20 cine mode more dynamic range?-testcinecustom.jpg  

HV20 cine mode more dynamic range?-testnikond70smalljpg.jpg  
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Old May 2nd, 2007, 08:35 AM   #29
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Here is another comparision with Patrick's footage.
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HV20 cine mode more dynamic range?-comparisions.jpg  
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Old May 2nd, 2007, 09:38 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
From my experience thus far, I'd say its a good option in contrasty extended range situations, but you don't have to shoot it to the exclusion of others. It should be shoot by shoot call. There are times when you will want the "pop" of the other modes...or the extra control..
Exactly Chris. And we shouldn't forget aperture mode. Here's an example where using aperture mode makes for a nicer looking shallow DOF because we are able to open it fully as opposed to cine mode where we can't. It's a subtle difference but to my eye it's very apparent.

Aperture vs Cine
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