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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


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Old April 28th, 2007, 09:43 PM   #1
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Is this camera cooler than we thought?

I just found some video at www.cinevate.com that showed footage of an HV20 with a 35mm lens adaptor and lens shooting some amazing stuff!

The HV20 shoots 24p (with pulldown), has a single (powerful, and according toe the site, it's '1/2.7" CMOS Sensor, RGB Primary Color Filter') CMOS sensor and a true 1920 x 1080 sensor size!

24p, 24f, 30f, 60i, etc. HDMI. Specifications:

http://usa.canon.com/app/html/HDV/HV...ications.shtml

I started thinking of the whole "camcorder as DSLR body" with cool lenses/adaptor and possibly a seperate digital recorder to skip the HDV compression. This camera may be the cheapest way to create an affordable digital cinema system! I was considering using a V1u, but this might be effective, too.

Thoughts?

Heath
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Old April 28th, 2007, 10:11 PM   #2
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Wow, for a long-time DVinfo-er with as many posts as you have, your comment is Rip Van Winkle-esque. Did you actually just find out about it? Yes, the HV20 is, save for a few issues, the greatest value in camcorders ever.
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Old April 28th, 2007, 10:17 PM   #3
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When I hear consumer, I usually tune out. Hence my lack of interest until now. Then again, I heard about the HV10's native 1920x1080 sensor, I was interested, but this new one is amazing. Great recording device if you throw an awesome 35mm adaptor and lenses on it.

heath
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Old April 28th, 2007, 11:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath McKnight View Post
I just found some video at www.cinevate.com that showed footage of an HV20 with a 35mm lens adaptor and lens shooting some amazing stuff!

The HV20 shoots 24p (with pulldown), has a single (powerful, and according toe the site, it's '1/2.7" CMOS Sensor, RGB Primary Color Filter') CMOS sensor and a true 1920 x 1080 sensor size!

24p, 24f, 30f, 60i, etc. HDMI. Specifications:

http://usa.canon.com/app/html/HDV/HV...ications.shtml

I started thinking of the whole "camcorder as DSLR body" with cool lenses/adaptor and possibly a seperate digital recorder to skip the HDV compression. This camera may be the cheapest way to create an affordable digital cinema system! I was considering using a V1u, but this might be effective, too.

Thoughts?

Heath
I know it has 24p and 60i, but does it really have 24f and 30f ? If so how do you get to those features, I've not found them in either the manual or the menu's. Also, what settings do you use during capture to Cineform Aspect for use in Vegas and/or Premiere ?

Thanks - PK
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Old April 28th, 2007, 11:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Paul Kepen View Post
I know it has 24p and 60i, but does it really have 24f and 30f ? If so how do you get to those features, I've not found them in either the manual or the menu's. Also, what settings do you use during capture to Cineform Aspect for use in Vegas and/or Premiere ?

Thanks - PK
It has 60i and 24p, no 30p or 30f. Why would you want 24f?

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Old April 28th, 2007, 11:15 PM   #6
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Heath/Paul,

24f and 30f are can't be recorded by the HV20 but it is listed as a playback format. So if you have an A!/G1 you're supposed to be able to use the HV20 as a deck. You do have 24p (24 progressive in 3:2 pulldown inside 60i) and 60i. Some have tried 60i->60p->24p conversion with results being compared to DVX. They're all around the threads.
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Old April 29th, 2007, 06:53 AM   #7
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So playback of H1, G1, A1 tapes in 30f and 24f. Nice.

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Old April 29th, 2007, 10:33 AM   #8
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Heath:

I ve had the camera about a month now. I've posted some test shots, comparing to the FX1, as well as shooting with the Letus. I made a simple adpater to shoot the Letus and HV20 upside down to get right side up image without needing to flip in post.

The camera adjustments are pretty darn good, considering. You can lock either aperature or shutter at a fixed speed, and adjuct the remaining variables with the Exposure selection. While you don't get a read out of what you are doing, Canon appears to have taken grain into consideration, adjusting gain as a last resort.

If you are doing DVC8, when film get posted, mine was shot with the HV20 Letus combo. Did the film to see how it works. (Not claiming it is a blockbuster film...:))

I will be posting recent shots with the Letus in a day or to, that I just took on vacation.
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Old April 29th, 2007, 11:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath McKnight View Post
When I hear consumer, I usually tune out. Hence my lack of interest until now. Then again, I heard about the HV10's native 1920x1080 sensor, I was interested, but this new one is amazing. Great recording device if you throw an awesome 35mm adaptor and lenses on it.

heath
A very nice 1920x1080 I might add. Best value ever ever.
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Old April 30th, 2007, 03:39 AM   #10
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Heath/Paul,

24f and 30f are can't be recorded by the HV20 but it is listed as a playback format. So if you have an A!/G1 you're supposed to be able to use the HV20 as a deck. You do have 24p (24 progressive in 3:2 pulldown inside 60i) and 60i. Some have tried 60i->60p->24p conversion with results being compared to DVX. They're all around the threads.
Thanks Mike. Yea, I thought it was strange to have both 24p and 24f. Now I see, it will PLAY both.

I tried 24p and noticed that the shutter speed varies considerably to control exposure. Sometimes getting down to 1/24 sec. - in a bright day lighted room! Motion - just people turning there heads, moving hands, etc. became quite jerky. Otherwise, once the shutter got back to 1/48 or greater, all was ok. I suppose I need to turn slow shutter off??
I guess 24p is not recommended for any fast action/sports, so what is the big advantage of 24p versus 60i with the cine mode on? Less artifacting? My primary output is DVD (and one of these days hopefully HDDVD/blueray). How well can you mix shots with very little motion at 24p and fast sports/action shot at 60i - and burn to DVD?
Thanks for your feedback and help - PK
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Old April 30th, 2007, 03:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Andrew Swihart View Post
Yes, the HV20 is, save for a few issues, the greatest value in camcorders ever.
I think that is the key here. The HV20 is a good camera for the price (value).
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Old April 30th, 2007, 06:13 PM   #12
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Paul,

So far, we like 24p for low light conditions and shots with no/slow pans. Cinemode has a great combination of settings that bring out details in the image. For sporting events it may be hard if you need to chase after the subject. Think golf swings when doing 24p and sports.

I haven't tried the HV20 at an event yet. But I used to shoot exclusively 30f on the Elura, I depend on keeping the action forward (I can go back/forth to cover more area in the frame) with little pivoting left or right. If I must its usually slow, it takes practice. My style was shoot, pause, change position, shoot, pause. If you need to continously record you may be better off using 60i then changing fps via software.

As for mixing different FPS footage, there are discussions in the other areas of DVInfo.net (e.g. Vegas area) on how to do it. It depends on how badly you want to match the final output. But just to give you an idea ... I shot an airsoft video with a Canon Elura @ 30fps progressive, Canon ZR200 @ 60i, CMOS cam @60i, Sony CCD Super HAD helmet cam @60i. You can tell which one is the Elura when the camera pans because of jumps between frames. There was a sequence where I followed players from the tail of a room clearing exercise, there were fast turns so I used 60i for that. For watching at 720x480 on a TV/Projector it looked good mixed together. The posted video in youtube (yeah, not a great example!) seemed to be okay with the audience.



Check out the discussion on 24p vs 60i:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=666238
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Old April 30th, 2007, 06:20 PM   #13
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Can you control the shutter, iris, focus, etc., if you're using a 35mm adaptor and lenses?

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Old April 30th, 2007, 06:21 PM   #14
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On the camcorder, yes. But with a 35mm adapter what you're recording is the image appearing on the focus screen. Typically you set and forget the camcorder. You'll be too busy manually controlling the 35mm lens' iris and focus.
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Old April 30th, 2007, 06:25 PM   #15
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That's what I thought. I haven't really used a 35mm adaptor/lens assembly, but I heard the camera just becomes a recording device and the iris, focus and shutter is controlled by the adaptor/lens assembly.

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