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Old May 10th, 2007, 10:19 AM   #1
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How to get true 24p with Final Cut and Cinema Tools

How to get true 24p with Final Cut and Cinema Tools

I use Final Cut Pro and Cinema Tools to get the job done. Cinema Tools comes with the Final Cut Studio Package.

Step 1. Open Final Cut Pro, Close any projects that might be open, go to Final Cut Pro>Easy Setup. Choose HDV 1080/60i.

Step 2. Go to Final Cut Pro>Audio/Video Settings, and under Capture Preset choose HDV Apple Intermediate Codec -- (Very Important!)

Step 3. Open a new project (unless one opened automatically), Open Log and Capture, and Capture footage just as you would normal dv footage.

Step 4. Save your project!!!!! Close Final Cut.

Step 5. Now here is the extra step that people are complaining about. Instead of removing pulldown in final cut, you have to do it in Cinema Tools....It really is easy once you know how to do it. (takes a while to explain, but is quick when you do it)

First, each clip you capture must begin with the first progressive frame in the sequence of three.....Sounds complicated? it's not really. Because of the HDV Standard, clips are captured in a sequence of 2 interlaced frames, then 3 progressive frames, then 2 interlaced, then 3 progressive, and so on.... I've seen it like this- iipppiipppiipppiippp - you must trim your clip so that it begins on the first progressive frame in the sequence of 3. Easily done by going to your capture scratch and opening you clips in quicktime. use the arrow keys to advance frames one by one. It is pretty easy to tell which frames are progressive, and which are interlaced. command-x removes the current frame. Once you have it to where the first three frames of the clip are progressive, save and close quicktime. Then Open Cinema Tools and click cancel when it asks to open a database. Go to File>Open, choose your clip. Now click Reverse Telecine, the button on the right side of the viewer. Set it to 23.98 frames per second, and click DD at the bottom. Click ok and save it. Once it's done. You've got true 24p. Import the clips into a Final Cut project, Got to Sequence>Settings, and Change the Timeline to 23.98 FPS. Now you can edit in 24p. I haven't really messed around with the export settings, but I'm sure it would be easy to figure out.
I know that it seems like a lot to do this, but you'll see that once you try it, it really is a very simple and quick process, and Totally worth it to get the quality. It's not really worth complaining over, especially because of the price and features of this camera.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 12:26 PM   #2
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Works Great!

Thanks for posting this information, it works great!
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Old May 10th, 2007, 01:11 PM   #3
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I'm glad to help. :)
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Old May 11th, 2007, 03:51 PM   #4
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Hi Stefan,

Thanks for the post. I've been using a similar process with a slight tweak: Set your in point to the _second_ progressive frame in the pppii sequence, and your clips will work with Cinema Tools' batch reverse telecine.

Ben
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Old May 14th, 2007, 10:25 PM   #5
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Hello,
Thanks for the Stefan.
However, when I set up Final Cut Pro (5.1.2) I see that I can capture 1080p25 from a setting... (I'm in PAL land)
Would this not give me the true 25p from the camera, then I would not need to go through cinema tools?
thanks,
Wayne
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Old May 14th, 2007, 10:42 PM   #6
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Why not just use the JES De-Interlacer?

It does reverse telecine for you so you don't have to strain your eyes checking the frames, and exports a nice tidy clip!!!
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Old May 16th, 2007, 06:39 AM   #7
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missing something?

Hi,
I guess I must be missing something here! I have a capture setting in FinalCut Pro that allows me to capture 1080p25. Why would I capture 1080i50 (here in PAL land) then use the JES_Deinterlacer to get back to 25p, when I could simply capture 1080p25 from this setting in the beginning?
I guess I must be missing something....
thanks
Wayne
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Old May 16th, 2007, 03:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Szabo View Post
you must trim your clip so that it begins on the first progressive frame in the sequence of 3. Easily done by going to your capture scratch and opening you clips in quicktime. use the arrow keys to advance frames one by one. It is pretty easy to tell which frames are progressive, and which are interlaced. command-x removes the current frame. Once you have it to where the first three frames of the clip are progressive, save and close quicktime. Then Open Cinema Tools and click cancel when it asks to open a database. Go to File>Open, choose your clip. Now click Reverse Telecine,
Hey Stefan, when I deinterlace film projects, I do something similar but I completely skip the "using QuickTime to edit the clips" portion of this workflow. Instead, just open your clip in CinemaTools, use the arrow buttons to advance to the AA frame, then hit the "Reverse Telecine" button and use the AA radio button (already selected in mine, so no clicking necessary)

Give it a shot because I don't think you need to actually trim the clip, just tell Cinema Tools what frame to start on.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 01:53 AM   #9
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As I have stated in another post, I cannot follow your instructions for log and capture with my HV20. If I select HDV Apple Intermediate Instead of HDV, the Log and Capture Window will not open. I only get the Live Capture window. Can anyone else confirm this?
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Old May 26th, 2007, 05:41 PM   #10
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Worked great!

Hi there,

First post at this site. (woo hoo!)

I have the HV20 and Final Cut Studio 2. I tried the technique described here and it worked perfectly. Thanks so much for sharing this.

I tried setting up an Automator script to do this automatically, but unfortunately Cinema Tools doesn't offer any hook-ins to Automator.

Any thoughts on whether or not ProRes422 would be a better choice for this than AIC?

Regards,
Jason
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Old May 29th, 2007, 07:05 PM   #11
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How about Compressor 3?

I found this workflow on dvxuser. Anyone try this? Is this any better or worse? It seems slightly more streamlined in the sense that one can just have compressor automatically detect the cadence and do the pulldown/inverse telecine for you.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=98411

This is from the the post by Aldous:

The workflow for the HV20 is really easy.

1 Shoot 24p with the HV20

2 Capture to Final Cut Pro using HDV out through the firewire

3 When all of the clips are in the bin you can export them straight to compressor.

4 In compressor i choose the preset for Apple ProRes 422 for progresive material HQ and leave all options on default except i enable the reverse telecine option.

5 Choose the output for the file or files and submit the batch for processing.

6 Re Import footage into Final Cut.

The revamp of compressor looks a lot different than the previous version, finding the preset and reverse telecine option may take a second. in the main window right click on the clip choose
new target with setting - Apple - Other Workflows - Advanced Format Conversions - Apple Codecs - ProRes 422 for progresive material HQ
Once You choose the output setting, if you double click the setting on the clip, an inspector window opens. There is a tab called Frame Controls, under that tab enable changes by clicking on the button. This will allow you to choose On in the field marked frame controls then toward the bottom there is a field marked deinterlace, there just choose Reverse Telecine from the dropdown menu.
Next Choose Save As down at the bottom. and next time all you have to do is load your custom preset.

I know this sounds confusing without pictures of the interface, but it is actually very easy once you get orientated with the new layout of compressor.
Although I have not tested anything more sophisticated I'm sure with automator you could do entire folders of media real quick.

I hope this helps.
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Old June 29th, 2007, 04:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Garvin View Post
Hey Stefan, when I deinterlace film projects, I do something similar but I completely skip the "using QuickTime to edit the clips" portion of this workflow. Instead, just open your clip in CinemaTools, use the arrow buttons to advance to the AA frame, then hit the "Reverse Telecine" button and use the AA radio button (already selected in mine, so no clicking necessary)

Give it a shot because I don't think you need to actually trim the clip, just tell Cinema Tools what frame to start on.
I tried this with my FCStudio version 1 but the only version of the clips I could find once I saved them in the Intermediate Codec were Quicktime clips (if I open file in Cinema Tools and try to open up the FC files they're all greyed out) and when I opened them in Cinema tools I couldn't use the arrows unless I hit play first but if I hit play first it naturally started playing so I couldn't use the arrows--a Catch 22. What am I doing wrong?
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Old June 29th, 2007, 05:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Szabo View Post
How to get true 24p with Final Cut and Cinema Tools

I use Final Cut Pro and Cinema Tools to get the job done. Cinema Tools comes with the Final Cut Studio Package.

Step 1. Open Final Cut Pro, Close any projects that might be open, go to Final Cut Pro>Easy Setup. Choose HDV 1080/60i.

Step 2. Go to Final Cut Pro>Audio/Video Settings, and under Capture Preset choose HDV Apple Intermediate Codec -- (Very Important!)

Step 3. Open a new project (unless one opened automatically), Open Log and Capture, and Capture footage just as you would normal dv footage.

Step 4. Save your project!!!!! Close Final Cut.

Step 5. Now here is the extra step that people are complaining about. Instead of removing pulldown in final cut, you have to do it in Cinema Tools....It really is easy once you know how to do it. (takes a while to explain, but is quick when you do it)

First, each clip you capture must begin with the first progressive frame in the sequence of three.....Sounds complicated? it's not really. Because of the HDV Standard, clips are captured in a sequence of 2 interlaced frames, then 3 progressive frames, then 2 interlaced, then 3 progressive, and so on.... I've seen it like this- iipppiipppiipppiippp - you must trim your clip so that it begins on the first progressive frame in the sequence of 3. Easily done by going to your capture scratch and opening you clips in quicktime. use the arrow keys to advance frames one by one. It is pretty easy to tell which frames are progressive, and which are interlaced. command-x removes the current frame. Once you have it to where the first three frames of the clip are progressive, save and close quicktime. Then Open Cinema Tools and click cancel when it asks to open a database. Go to File>Open, choose your clip. Now click Reverse Telecine, the button on the right side of the viewer. Set it to 23.98 frames per second, and click DD at the bottom. Click ok and save it. Once it's done. You've got true 24p. Import the clips into a Final Cut project, Got to Sequence>Settings, and Change the Timeline to 23.98 FPS. Now you can edit in 24p. I haven't really messed around with the export settings, but I'm sure it would be easy to figure out.
I know that it seems like a lot to do this, but you'll see that once you try it, it really is a very simple and quick process, and Totally worth it to get the quality. It's not really worth complaining over, especially because of the price and features of this camera.
Followed this to I think the letter and get a horrible big "ripple" effect every few frames, what am I doing wrong?
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Old June 30th, 2007, 02:00 AM   #14
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PS I tried both starting on the first progressive frame and the second and neither worked.
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