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Old March 30th, 2008, 06:34 AM   #76
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Component vs HDMI

Hi Mike. There are reports stating that the HDMI input is after the DSP downrezzing i.e. it is 1440 to 1920 upconversion.
Any idea if its the same for component ?
It would make sense for the component to be the signal after the sensor as its analog anyway..

Just wondering if I could use Intensity Pro with component and actually capture 10-bit 1080p ?
Love to hear your view on this..

Originally Posted by Mike Thomann View Post
I made some comparisons of Derek's footage and found what to me looks like very positive results as to whether or not 1920x1080 is downrezzed to 1440x1080 and back to 1920x1080 before HDMI output. I used Photoshop to zoom in 1600% on a target area of the HDV sample which we know has been through the down-conversion process due to the HDV codec. As I examined the pixels, both closely and at a distance, I saw vertical lines. I highlighted them to reveal that they were evenly spaced at every 4th horizontal pixel, which happens to correspond to pixel interpolation of every 4th pixel associated with a 25% horizontal pixel contraction and expansion in the conversion process.

Then I examined the same area on Derek's uncompressed sample and did not see any evidence of vertical patterns, which is a very good thing because that means down-conversion before HDMI output is not evident within these samples.

I uploaded the highlighted comparisons to

EDIT: What is most notable about these comparisons is that each pixel within the uncompressed sample sharply appears to represent a single individual color on its own, especially when compared to HDV. That is some incredible footage. I am extremely impressed.

EDIT: I have also examined NEOHDV against NEOHD and Uncompressed. As expected, since NEOHDV is 1440x1080, the same lines are evident every 4th horizontal pixel; whereas they are not evident with NEOHD and uncompressed which are full 1920x1080. This is further evidence that HDMI out has not been down-converted to 1440x1080. I have added these comparisons to the link above as well.
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Old March 30th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #77
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This is an old test and since then more recent discussions have lead to the general acception that there is no 1920 sensor -> 1440 dsp -> 1920 HDMI taking place. The purpose of my comparisons with Derek's samples was to see to what extend that can be determined. To me it is clear that the results of the comparison of 1920 samples next to known down-rezzed 1440 samples illustrate that no down-rez/up-rez had taken place on on the 1920 samples.
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Old March 30th, 2008, 03:29 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Anmol Mishra View Post
Just wondering if I could use Intensity Pro with component and actually capture 10-bit 1080p ?
Love to hear your view on this..
I second what Mike said regarding HDMI - it appears to be full 1920 being fed to the HDMI port rather than upscaled 1440.

It's also been verified that the HV20's HDMI out is 8bit, not 10bit. The only 10bit camera w/digital out under $10k is the EX1 (and that's HD-SDI). Also, the Intensity Pro's HDMI is 8bit as well from what I know, so, it'd take a new version of that card to go to the next level.

As for 10bit analoge out of the HV20, that's a good question!

I own the Decklink HD Exteme - the older cousin of the Intensity cards - analogue in as well. If the Intensity can't go above 8-bits component in, the Decklink HD Extreme might be able to (just to be able to check). I'm positive that it has 14bit analoge component out - which means it may have a high bit-depth input as well.

My HV20 is out of comission again thanks to Canon ( ) but I'll check the analoge input once it's back.

Can someone test with their HV20 and Intensity Pro in the meantime?
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Old November 1st, 2009, 09:41 AM   #79
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good test

you see the HDV shot in the photoshop file - look round the eyes and there is horizontal lines in the curve that seem like compression.
this is exactly what im finding when i convert my hdv DOF adapter footage with hv20 to computer... (actually even without the DOF)
on the tv it looks great no banding, but once its in the computer everything bright red has this slight horizontal banding that looks like jpeg/mpeg compression, is it something im doing wrong? ive tried tests with cineform and raw m2t files but both the same... im sure it never used to do this, the television i linked it up to with hdmi from the camera has no enhancements turned on and raw footage looks nice, with no red problems.

pic attached is from a fullframe grab its something in the background out of focus but open it 100% and you can see the red lines im talking about, hv20 problem?.

any ideas?
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