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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
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Old May 20th, 2007, 11:06 AM   #1
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Mini DV Tapes and the HV20

Can I use standard Mini DV tapes with the HV20 in SD mode?
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Old May 20th, 2007, 11:54 AM   #2
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Yup. You can use plain MiniDV tapes for HD too, not just SD.

See other threads for discussions on that; some think more premium tape (HD or not) can be better for less dropouts (esp on repeated playback), but unclear esp if you don't re-play the same tape a lot...

the biggest recommendation is to pick one brand&type, and STICK with it, to avoid heads-clogs from mixed tape lubrication that varies across brands.
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Old May 20th, 2007, 12:44 PM   #3
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Yup. You can use plain MiniDV tapes for HD too, not just SD.
This is the most awesome news I have heard all week, thanks! I have about 51 unused Mini DV tapes sitting in a box that I can use...for a feature that I'm shooting.
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Old May 20th, 2007, 02:35 PM   #4
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It all made sense to me when someone said:

HDV records at the data rate and speed as normal DV - there is no different to the amount of data recorded, only the compression used

So MiniDV for me.

Using Sony Premium and sticking with it

R
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Old May 20th, 2007, 03:20 PM   #5
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I would make sure to do extensive testing of this concept (i.e. don't take anyone's word for it) before committing to executing it on an important project. If you do end up with any problems, you will certainly be wishing you spent the $7 per HDV tape--in fact, you'd probably be willing to retroactively pay several times that rather than deal with the headaches of dropouts or lost scenes that need to be reshot. These days the cost of the tapestock is a minor consideration against most other production factors. This is not to counter anyone's findings, just a recommendation to do your own tests.
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Old May 20th, 2007, 05:38 PM   #6
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I would make sure to do extensive testing of this concept (i.e. don't take anyone's word for it) before committing to executing it on an important project. If you do end up with any problems, you will certainly be wishing you spent the $7 per HDV tape--in fact, you'd probably be willing to retroactively pay several times that rather than deal with the headaches of dropouts or lost scenes that need to be reshot. These days the cost of the tapestock is a minor consideration against most other production factors. This is not to counter anyone's findings, just a recommendation to do your own tests.
Charles, your knowledge is way beyond mines, but I was just wondering why a mini DV master tape would have problems with HDV dropouts if the data rate between SD and HDV is the same? Does the tape speed somehow increase with HDV? I'm just curious.
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Old May 20th, 2007, 06:21 PM   #7
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Higher quality tapes reduce the risk of dropouts... essentially... The "master" tapes and whatnot are just produced to higher standards

I have honestly gone through 200+ mini-DV tapes and only witnessed 1 frame dropout for about 5 frames, and I always buy the cheapest I can find (Panasonic, TDV, Sony, Fujifilm... all under $3 per tape)
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Old May 20th, 2007, 07:52 PM   #8
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I have honestly gone through 200+ mini-DV tapes and only witnessed 1 frame dropout for about 5 frames, and I always buy the cheapest I can find (Panasonic, TDV, Sony, Fujifilm... all under $3 per tape)
Unless when the dropout happen exactly at the moment your daughter uttered her first words. That's what happened to me. Since then, no more cheap tape for me.
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Old May 20th, 2007, 08:02 PM   #9
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I'll stick my neck out here, because I'm not an expert on compression issues, but my understanding is that the interframe GOP of HDV (vs DV's intraframe setup) means that a single dropout can affect multiple frames of HDV and thus can blank out up to a half second of footage, depending on the camera and frame rate.

Overall I have had much better results with DV tapes, even the standard tapes I used for years (Sony PR series) than with other technologies (Hi-8 being the worst, many of my tapes from the 90's are the most dropout-plagued of anything I've used). But like I said--master tapes of precious material only come around once, and a few extra bucks aren't worth the gamble for me at least, unless entirely unnecessary.
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Old May 20th, 2007, 09:10 PM   #10
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I'll stick my neck out here, because I'm not an expert on compression issues, but my understanding is that the interframe GOP of HDV (vs DV's intraframe setup) means that a single dropout can affect multiple frames of HDV and thus can blank out up to a half second of footage, depending on the camera and frame rate.

Overall I have had much better results with DV tapes, even the standard tapes I used for years (Sony PR series) than with other technologies (Hi-8 being the worst, many of my tapes from the 90's are the most dropout-plagued of anything I've used). But like I said--master tapes of precious material only come around once, and a few extra bucks aren't worth the gamble for me at least, unless entirely unnecessary.
I have Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ master tapes. They're not HDV tapes, but they're Mini DV Master tapes. Do you think these will be fine for HDV recording?
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Old May 21st, 2007, 07:05 AM   #11
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I have Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ master tapes. They're not HDV tapes, but they're Mini DV Master tapes. Do you think these will be fine for HDV recording?
I think the key is to use high quality tape. I've never used PQ, but I think it should be high-enough quality. In my area, the price difference between PQ and AMQ is only a dollar or so, thus I just get the best one I can afford.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 10:12 AM   #12
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Personally I use the Sony Premium tapes and order them by the case. I never re-use them. No issues with dropouts, ever.

Tape is cheap (even reasonablly good ones). Buy tape for each project and include it in the cost for that project. Shoot wisely and don't waste alot of tape. You'll never be sorry for the small added cost of production.

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Old May 21st, 2007, 11:44 AM   #13
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I have used hundreds of Sony Premium tapes DVM60PRL ($2.30 each) and had maybe 1 or 2 drop outs. IMO the HD tapes are marketing.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 03:47 PM   #14
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Glenn- I'm using those in my HV20, no problems at all.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 04:24 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Unless when the dropout happen exactly at the moment your daughter uttered her first words. That's what happened to me. Since then, no more cheap tape for me.
It depends on what you're filming... for me... I can edit out a 5 frame dropout... or work around it quite easily... I film for 3 hours and use 10 minutes of it...
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