New HV20, Looking For Best File Format at DVinfo.net

Rick Barr · May 30th, 2007, 12:53 PM

I just got my HV20 a couple weeks ago, and love it. I also got all the parts and stuff that I need to get everything onto my PC. I use Vegas Studio 5.0, and for my first couple attempts, have opened the m2t files and simply made a movie in Windows Media Video V9 format. Comparing these videos to what I get directly from the camera to my 40" Samsung HDTV (even just using the DVi cable, not HDMI), there seems to be some quality loss.

I am very new to all of this.....I'm not looking to become a professional, but I want these looking as good as possible. Does anyone have a step-by-step process by which I can take raw m2t files and end up with a near-perfect duplicate on my computer post-editing?

I use HDVSplit to capture video from the camcorder. I have MPEG Streamclip, but haven't gotten anything successful out of that. Any ideas are appreciated!

Taky Cheung · May 30th, 2007, 01:09 PM

I use Adobe Premiere to edit the m2t file and export back to m2t. So it's near the original input file with no noticeably quality loss (although I know there is a generation loss as Premere render every frame). Still the final video is still very good.

I also render another version of WMV to 1280x720p (with deinterlace set to on) with datarate 3 or 5mbps. That's mostly for sending video out using FTP.

Here's one I created. You will have to right click and download the file.

http://www.hv20.info/yopu/JessieFelix.wmv

Then I also render a 640x360 in 1mbps for web streaming. 1mbps is quite pushing the limit but I want to keep the good quality. :)

http://lacolor.com/video/hd/?id=Jess...x_PhotoSession

Another way will cost you $500 to buy Cineform AspectHD. It comes with their HD codec that looks pretty good.

Rick Barr · May 30th, 2007, 01:33 PM

Thanks for the quick reply and the links. They both look great. I'll try those settings and see if I end up with something better than what I'm getting. I guess another question I have is, what should I set my default proect properties to, as far as width, height, pixel aspect ratio, etc? Do those matter very much?

Also, when you say you export back to m2t, how exactly do you view those files outside of an editor?

Taky Cheung · May 30th, 2007, 01:37 PM

What software you use to edit?

For Premiere, there are some standard presets (Sony HDV 1080i) and you can also download Canon HDV 24p Preset from Adobe's site. That saves you time in determining what you need to specifiy in your project properties.

m2t is just MPEG file. You can rename .m2t to .mpg. For Windows, you can just double click the m2t file. Specify your player when asked.

Rick Barr · May 30th, 2007, 05:28 PM

I'm using Vegas Movie Studio 5.0. Would the preset you spoke of work with that?

I did simply rename the .m2t files to .mpg, it's nice to know I can do that.

Taky Cheung · May 30th, 2007, 05:30 PM

I don't know about Vegas. I'm sure it has presets do the same.

Ian G. Thompson · May 30th, 2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taky Cheung

I use Adobe Premiere to edit the m2t file and export back to m2t. So it's near the original input file with no noticeably quality loss (although I know there is a generation loss as Premere render every frame). Still the final video is still very good.

I also render another version of WMV to 1280x720p (with deinterlace set to on) with datarate 3 or 5mbps. That's mostly for sending video out using FTP.

Here's one I created. You will have to right click and download the file.

http://www.hv20.info/yopu/JessieFelix.wmv

Then I also render a 640x360 in 1mbps for web streaming. 1mbps is quite pushing the limit but I want to keep the good quality. :)

http://lacolor.com/video/hd/?id=Jess...x_PhotoSession

Another way will cost you $500 to buy Cineform AspectHD. It comes with their HD codec that looks pretty good.

Taky that was a real nice vid. Very crisp and sharp looking. Was this shot in 24P? If so what did you use to remove pulldown? I ask because from what i always understood Adobe 2 does not remove pulldown from HV20.

I have recently been using Vegas to render out to MainConcept MPEG2 (M2T) file. From there I use the HV20Pulldown.exe file by Steve Szudzik and it seems to work fine.

Taky Cheung · May 30th, 2007, 07:44 PM

Thanks! the video is shot in 24p but I didn't do the pulldown removal. It still nice.

If you are gonna do the pulldown removal, you should do it in the source file but not the output file. The output file already have the pulldown information mess up so the removal will not be as accurate.

Rick Barr · May 30th, 2007, 07:50 PM

Now I'm really going to sound like a newb, but what exactly is a pulldown? I keep hearing about removing it, but is it something you get from a setting on the camcorder? Is it something you would ever want? What does it do?

Taky Cheung · May 30th, 2007, 07:58 PM

There are tons of information online about the pulldown. Here's one

http://www.zerocut.com/tech/pulldown.html

Basically the pulldown is a method to playback 24 fps video (e.g. film) to a 30fps video (NTSC TV) by inserting additional frames to fill the missing frames.

HV20 can shot 24 fps progressive (24p) video but it was wrapped in a 30fps interlaced container (pulldown included). To remove the pulldown will extra the true 24 fps progressive frame out so the video is free of interlaced lines. The final fize size is also smaller because there are only 24 frames per second instead of 30.

Ian G. Thompson · May 30th, 2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taky Cheung

Thanks! the video is shot in 24p but I didn't do the pulldown removal. It still nice.

If you are gonna do the pulldown removal, you should do it in the source file but not the output file. The output file already have the pulldown information mess up so the removal will not be as accurate.

You know Taky...that's what everyone keeps saying and i understand it but what I did was render out that MPEG (HDV) file as HDV 1080-60i, 29.97 fps 1440x1080, 16:9 Display, Interlaced Top field First, 25,000,000 Constant Bit rate to a standard M2T file. Went through the above mentioned software and saved it as Uncompressed. The video came out perfectly with no interlacing ghosting efect and at 24P. I did a comparison with the native file run through the .exe software and they semed identical. I did a walkthrouh frame by frame and where i once seen ghosting it was not there. I don't get it. it seems to work for me. I am still testing this out but if anyone wants to give this a try please do.

Taky Cheung · May 30th, 2007, 08:29 PM

well, if I'm gonna do it, I'll just do it the right way.

I think the messing up of the pulldown sequence will occur when you apply transitions, filters, and trimming of clips. Maybe you can try apply some filters to the entire movie to see if the pulldown removal still do it right?

Chris Barcellos · May 30th, 2007, 09:57 PM

I ve just started working with it, but Neo HDV from Cineform ($249.00 at Cineform.com) converts HV20 24p at capture, on the fly, into a great intermediate editing file. Note: The file would run about 3 times the size of HDV or .m2t equivalent in an .avi format, but it is actually supposed to be easier on processing loads during edits.

Taky Cheung · May 30th, 2007, 10:30 PM

Yeah, I'm tempted to get Cineform AspectHD for the realtime capability in Premiere.

Ray Bell · May 31st, 2007, 04:47 AM

Taky, how did you create the transistions in the vid... the footage looks
very nice..

May 30th, 2007, 12:53 PM	#1
Rick Barr New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 14	New HV20, Looking For Best File Format I just got my HV20 a couple weeks ago, and love it. I also got all the parts and stuff that I need to get everything onto my PC. I use Vegas Studio 5.0, and for my first couple attempts, have opened the m2t files and simply made a movie in Windows Media Video V9 format. Comparing these videos to what I get directly from the camera to my 40" Samsung HDTV (even just using the DVi cable, not HDMI), there seems to be some quality loss. I am very new to all of this.....I'm not looking to become a professional, but I want these looking as good as possible. Does anyone have a step-by-step process by which I can take raw m2t files and end up with a near-perfect duplicate on my computer post-editing? I use HDVSplit to capture video from the camcorder. I have MPEG Streamclip, but haven't gotten anything successful out of that. Any ideas are appreciated!

May 30th, 2007, 09:57 PM	#13
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I ve just started working with it, but Neo HDV from Cineform ($249.00 at Cineform.com) converts HV20 24p at capture, on the fly, into a great intermediate editing file. Note: The file would run about 3 times the size of HDV or .m2t equivalent in an .avi format, but it is actually supposed to be easier on processing loads during edits. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

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May 30th, 2007, 01:09 PM	#2
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	I use Adobe Premiere to edit the m2t file and export back to m2t. So it's near the original input file with no noticeably quality loss (although I know there is a generation loss as Premere render every frame). Still the final video is still very good. I also render another version of WMV to 1280x720p (with deinterlace set to on) with datarate 3 or 5mbps. That's mostly for sending video out using FTP. Here's one I created. You will have to right click and download the file. http://www.hv20.info/yopu/JessieFelix.wmv Then I also render a 640x360 in 1mbps for web streaming. 1mbps is quite pushing the limit but I want to keep the good quality. :) http://lacolor.com/video/hd/?id=Jess...x_PhotoSession Another way will cost you $500 to buy Cineform AspectHD. It comes with their HD codec that looks pretty good.

May 30th, 2007, 01:33 PM	#3
Rick Barr New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 14	Thanks for the quick reply and the links. They both look great. I'll try those settings and see if I end up with something better than what I'm getting. I guess another question I have is, what should I set my default proect properties to, as far as width, height, pixel aspect ratio, etc? Do those matter very much? Also, when you say you export back to m2t, how exactly do you view those files outside of an editor?

May 30th, 2007, 01:37 PM	#4
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	What software you use to edit? For Premiere, there are some standard presets (Sony HDV 1080i) and you can also download Canon HDV 24p Preset from Adobe's site. That saves you time in determining what you need to specifiy in your project properties. m2t is just MPEG file. You can rename .m2t to .mpg. For Windows, you can just double click the m2t file. Specify your player when asked.

May 30th, 2007, 05:28 PM	#5
Rick Barr New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 14	I'm using Vegas Movie Studio 5.0. Would the preset you spoke of work with that? I did simply rename the .m2t files to .mpg, it's nice to know I can do that.

May 30th, 2007, 05:30 PM	#6
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	I don't know about Vegas. I'm sure it has presets do the same.

May 30th, 2007, 07:44 PM	#8
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	Thanks! the video is shot in 24p but I didn't do the pulldown removal. It still nice. If you are gonna do the pulldown removal, you should do it in the source file but not the output file. The output file already have the pulldown information mess up so the removal will not be as accurate.

May 30th, 2007, 07:50 PM	#9
Rick Barr New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 14	Now I'm really going to sound like a newb, but what exactly is a pulldown? I keep hearing about removing it, but is it something you get from a setting on the camcorder? Is it something you would ever want? What does it do?

May 30th, 2007, 07:58 PM	#10
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	There are tons of information online about the pulldown. Here's one http://www.zerocut.com/tech/pulldown.html Basically the pulldown is a method to playback 24 fps video (e.g. film) to a 30fps video (NTSC TV) by inserting additional frames to fill the missing frames. HV20 can shot 24 fps progressive (24p) video but it was wrapped in a 30fps interlaced container (pulldown included). To remove the pulldown will extra the true 24 fps progressive frame out so the video is free of interlaced lines. The final fize size is also smaller because there are only 24 frames per second instead of 30.

May 30th, 2007, 08:29 PM	#12
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	well, if I'm gonna do it, I'll just do it the right way. I think the messing up of the pulldown sequence will occur when you apply transitions, filters, and trimming of clips. Maybe you can try apply some filters to the entire movie to see if the pulldown removal still do it right?

May 30th, 2007, 10:30 PM	#14
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	Yeah, I'm tempted to get Cineform AspectHD for the realtime capability in Premiere.

May 31st, 2007, 04:47 AM	#15
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	Taky, how did you create the transistions in the vid... the footage looks very nice..