Canon HV10 vertical line problem? at DVinfo.net

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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


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Old June 17th, 2007, 04:58 AM   #1
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Canon HV10 vertical line problem?

Anyone havr problems with seeing vertical lines in low light? Is this a defect I should watch for?

-Ed
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Old June 17th, 2007, 08:45 AM   #2
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I get the same kinda thing on my HV20, like a blue banding down the right hand side.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 10:10 AM   #3
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Lines in the HV 10

I was having problems with horizontal lines in my HV 10. I returned the camera to Canon Repair twice. It returned unfixed both times. Talked to a technician 3 times, and even sent a mini dv tape to there Tape Research Facility in Virgina. After 90 days no answers, or suggestions.

However, I did find a work around. I found that if I pre-record each mini dv tape prior to use, that the lines went away. It's kinda of a pain, but it works. Be sure to pre-record the whole tape, not just the beginning of the tape.

I hope it works for you.

Right now I am unhappy with Canon. They couldn't fix my HV 10, and so far they have not offered a replacement. I plan to buy another Camera in the fall, but right now it won't be another Canon.

Dave Rice
Sitka, Alaska
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Old June 17th, 2007, 10:44 AM   #4
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Vertical lines in very low light are a known issue w/ the HV's CMOS sensor.
Use a slower shutter speed or brighter light, and it should go away.
See previous posts and sample videos (way back in the start :) )
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Old June 17th, 2007, 04:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rice View Post

However, I did find a work around. I found that if I pre-record each mini dv tape prior to use, that the lines went away. It's kinda of a pain, but it works. Be sure to pre-record the whole tape, not just the beginning of the tape.

I hope it works for you.
How do you pre-record each mini DV tape?

-Ed
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Old June 17th, 2007, 07:58 PM   #6
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I set up the camera on a tripod, and point it at a TV set or any other moving objects. Record the full 60 min tape. I then rewind the tape, and use the same tape again for my shoot. It's a pain to do, but it works.

The above process has eliminated all the Horizontal lines, and pixalation that I was experiencing. The same problem that Canon Repair could not fix.
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Old June 17th, 2007, 08:09 PM   #7
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Anyone have links to footage showing the vertical lines/banding?

Nearly all the old ones are dead links.

-Ed
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Old June 17th, 2007, 11:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Khang View Post
Anyone have links to footage showing the vertical lines/banding?

Nearly all the old ones are dead links.

-Ed
This one still works:
" quick low light clip:
I am uploading a <30sec , 75mb nighttime clip, no lighting except indirect streetlights; cars are about 40'+? away, streetlight farther down street on opposite side.
Handheld so you can check out focus and OIS in dark shots.
Sorry the cars were silver and white, can't check out the color in low light :)"
http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/cgHV...tlightOnly.mpg

from my initial first-test thread.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=75854

(Thanks again Chris for hosting)
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Old June 18th, 2007, 04:30 PM   #9
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Have you tried the settings described in this post?
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?...74&postcount=1

Check out the video. Very low light, and nary a vertical band/line to be seen.

Very impressive. Did he get lucky and get an HV10 immune to vertical banding, or did his settings help?

-Ed
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Old June 23rd, 2007, 12:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Le View Post
Evening footage at a mall and a local college.

720/30P - 49 MB - WMV 9 - Right Click and Save As

http://www.mydatabus.com/public/tle/z/HV10evening.wmv

Camera Settings:

- Mode: Tv, shutter 1/60
- Exposure: Press the EXP button and dial 1-3 clicks down from 100% zebras as required
- Image Effects: all off/default
- OIS: off
- Focus: mostly IAF, sometimes IAF to set focus then to MF to prevent hunting
- No post CC
- Some shots used an old Raynox .3x semi-fisheye
I tried those same settings, shooting at around 12pm indoors with only light from the window. It's not that dark, but I get Vertical Banding City. Take a look at the pics below.





I can't for the life of me get any useable footage in low light at 1/60 Shutter speed, because most of the time, even with the exposure all the way down (really dark looking, almost black, cranking up brightness in Vegas yields a hella noisy picture) I get vertical banding like crazy. Only if I switch to 1/30th, does it not get banding, and that's if I turn down the exposure.

Do I have a defective HV10? Do they all do this? Or does Tim have a rare, magical HV10?

-Ed
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Old July 19th, 2007, 06:22 PM   #11
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normal

1) Vertical bands are normal in low-light.
2) However you will see them in some low-light conditions ONLY IF you have auto slow shutter turned off. Otherwise, the camera will automatically use longer frame exposures to compensate, and you won't see vertical bands.
3) Light conditions where you have a 60w bulb farther than about 10-12 feet away is all that's usually required to see these bands. Once you go 'candlelight' like lighting, it'll show up for sure.
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Old July 19th, 2007, 08:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Chien View Post
1) Vertical bands are normal in low-light.
2) However you will see them in some low-light conditions ONLY IF you have auto slow shutter turned off. Otherwise, the camera will automatically use longer frame exposures to compensate, and you won't see vertical bands.
3) Light conditions where you have a 60w bulb farther than about 10-12 feet away is all that's usually required to see these bands. Once you go 'candlelight' like lighting, it'll show up for sure.
The Vertical Banding is quite visible even in Auto mode with A.Slow Shutter On. The best way to reduce vertical banding is to shoot in Program (P) mode in TV (Shutter Priority) Mode 30 FPS, 70% Zebras, with exposure compensation until the zebras and/or vertical banding is no longer visible. This method will usually net you a darker scene, though, but no vertical banding.

I am more than convinced that Tim Le used 30 frames rather than 60. Either that, or he used an HV20.

-Ed
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Old July 20th, 2007, 11:22 PM   #13
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My HV20 had issues where there were a couple of fairly noticeable vertical blue lines towards the center of the image. I purchased my HV20 from Costco back in April, and it was indeed only when I was shooting in auto and indoors (with relatively low light). My brother-in-law purchased an HV20 around the same time and I had him run some test with his and he didn't have anything nearly as noticeable.

I watched Costco's site for a couple of months after I bought mine hoping they'd get more back in stock so I could return mine and re-purchase within my 90 day return window. Lucky for me, they came back in stock this week (only a few days before my 90 days were up) so I returned it and ordered a new one. It gets here early next week, so hopefully I don't have it nearly as bad with my 2nd one. With my luck, it will probably end up being worse than my first one. :(

It was something that bothered me after I noticed it the first night I had it. I first noticed it on the LCD, and then it was just as noticeable (if not more so - to me) on our TV. I realized it was a potential issue with CMOS sensors, but it didn't sound like many others were having the same severity level I was having.

I did some reading and searching, and didn't notice this thread. Now that I'm reading it, I wonder if I should have just kept my first one. I'm going to pull a sample frame and post it here to display the severity.

Thanks for the thread!

Dustin Wilkins

Last edited by Dustin Wilkins; July 20th, 2007 at 11:30 PM. Reason: (added info)
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Old July 21st, 2007, 12:18 PM   #14
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Parallel thread: CMOS sensor failed, returned HV20

Incase you missed it, I have a thread that I'm using to cover my experiences with my HV20 - it's problem was severe enough to create absolutely useless footage when the problem was occuring.Vertical red/black line, 3 or so pixels wide.

The unit was sent away last week to Canon - waiting for an update, which I'll post in a different thread devoted to this 'developing story':

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=98298

I really like the HV20 and I intend to continue using it once I get it back. However, anyone know of a Canon extended warrenty option?
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Old January 4th, 2008, 05:31 AM   #15
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HV10 LCD Viewfinder problem?

My HV10's LCD Viewfinder has this dark, shadow-like unevenness in the left lower corner. It is more visible when I am shooting darker scenes. Is this normal?
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