Neutral Density Filter Recommendations Please at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XA and VIXIA Series AVCHD Camcorders > Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders

Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 12th, 2007, 04:08 AM   #1
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,259
Neutral Density Filter Recommendations Please

I should be getting my HV-20 next month and want to shoot wide open as much as possible, to get used to its shallow DoF capacities at different distances from the subject.

Since the HV-20 has a max shutter speed of 1/2,000th, I imagine some ND filters will be needed, esp for outside shooting.

Any recommendations on brands, strengths and how to best use ND filters?

BTW, I'm thinking of getting setpup adapter to go from 43mm[correction] to 52mm. This way I can buy a more standard size filters, that could even be used on a normal still camera lens attached to an adapter (thinking down the road).

Thanks a lot as always!

Peter

Last edited by Peter Moretti; July 12th, 2007 at 03:41 PM.
Peter Moretti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 09:58 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Somerville, NJ
Posts: 304
a correction ...

HV20 has a 43mm filter thread, the HV10 uses 37mm.
__________________
DIY, 35mm, HV20:
http://www.primitivebuteffective.net
Mike Dulay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 10:23 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 86
I am by no means a professional, but recently read a thread about using 2 linear polarizers. I can't find it, but basically with one fixed and the other rotating, you can get a "variable ND filter" effect. WHILE IN CINEMODE AND 24P, the thread also says if you cover the lens for total darkness, lock the exposure, and adjust it to -11, that will give you:

iris-1.8
shutter-1/48
gain-0

Then use the polarizer as a "like" iris control. I hope I explained this well.

Thomas
Thomas Barthle Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 10:24 AM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 86
I would suggest 55mm filter minimum to keep them out of the frame. This is the standard threading for the Canon 50mm.
Thomas Barthle Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 03:44 PM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Barthle Jr. View Post
I would suggest 55mm filter minimum to keep them out of the frame. This is the standard threading for the Canon 50mm.
Thomas, I'm pretty set on using a Nikon 50mm, that has a 52mm filter size, as my first adapter lens.

Oh and you explained using the two filters perfectly. I imagine it will have a different effect than using an ND if photographing through glass or with refelcted light. But it would be worth a shot.
Peter Moretti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 04:41 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 101
Hi Peter,

have you heard of the 2 built in ND filters? There's a thread on that somewhere here. Those built in ones may save you the expense and hassle of external filters, but you can't control them directly, I think they engage automatically.
What's worse: adding an external one may cause the camera to disengage its own ND filter, so there would be no effect of putting it on :))

I have my HV20 for some time now, and I suspect the NDs are used even before shutters get fast / iris gets closed, because motion signature and DOF are pretty constant in low to moderate light conditions. In my perception.

Much speculation here, but you have to start somewhere...
regs,
Pieter
Pieter Jongerius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 04:49 PM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 86
I ordered a linear polarizer, my father had one already in excellent shape. Again, I am no way a professional (just a hobby for now) and can't justify spending all that money on multiple filters.

The reason I went with the 55mm is because 1) I already had one 2) I have a 43mm uv on the front of my HV20, which made the polarizers stick out more. You can always use a step-up ring from 52mm to 55mm if you need, you can't really step-down.

Thomas
Thomas Barthle Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 05:57 PM   #8
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,781
Just remember, gents, that while a polarizer does function as an ND6 (cutting two stops), it also has a specific effect which is to polarize light! In a run and gun situation, if you don't get into the habit of regularly rotating it to check its effect, you may end up doing unwanted things to the image, such as killing the reflections in water or grass/trees which can "deaden" the look somewhat, or render surfaces that might already be polarized like sunglasses or cel phone screens completely black.
__________________
Charles Papert
www.charlespapert.com
Charles Papert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 06:30 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 86
This is true. I, however, will be using this in a project in which I will be doing a lot of air-to-air stuff. This will help avoid blown out sky without underexposing the Stinson aircraft we will be documenting.
Thomas Barthle Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 06:41 PM   #10
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,781
It can't hurt, as long as you are flying with the sun at your side!
__________________
Charles Papert
www.charlespapert.com
Charles Papert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 07:01 PM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 86
Yeah. My father is a pilot and we are going to experiment with other aircraft before the big flight. Sorry for off-subject post.
Thomas Barthle Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 11:06 PM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pieter Jongerius View Post
Hi Peter,

have you heard of the 2 built in ND filters? There's a thread on that somewhere here. Those built in ones may save you the expense and hassle of external filters, but you can't control them directly, I think they engage automatically.
What's worse: adding an external one may cause the camera to disengage its own ND filter, so there would be no effect of putting it on :))

I have my HV20 for some time now, and I suspect the NDs are used even before shutters get fast / iris gets closed, because motion signature and DOF are pretty constant in low to moderate light conditions. In my perception.

Much speculation here, but you have to start somewhere...
regs,
Pieter
Have you noticed if Portrait Mode uses the widest possible iris, or just a wider than usual one?

Also, couldn't I just manually set the iris to 1.8 and the shutter speed to 1/48th (for example) and see if the meter is in range. If it's reading over-exposed, then just start piling on the ND filters?

In the beginning, I would like to shoot wide open as much as possible. Edge resolution I could really care less about; I actually like some vignetting and corner softness. (Hopefully I won't be eating these words.)

Thanks for your help.

Last edited by Peter Moretti; July 12th, 2007 at 11:52 PM.
Peter Moretti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2007, 09:34 AM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 86
That would work. However, you can't truly manually adjust both settings. If you have a miniSD card in the camcorder, you can half click the photo button to view your iris and shutter. Just lock the exposure and move it up and down until you have to right settings.

Thomas
Thomas Barthle Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2007, 02:54 PM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
Have you noticed if Portrait Mode uses the widest possible iris, or just a wider than usual one?

Also, couldn't I just manually set the iris to 1.8 and the shutter speed to 1/48th (for example) and see if the meter is in range. If it's reading over-exposed, then just start piling on the ND filters?

In the beginning, I would like to shoot wide open as much as possible. Edge resolution I could really care less about; I actually like some vignetting and corner softness. (Hopefully I won't be eating these words.)

Thanks for your help.
I also like to shoot as open as possible, however I never really tested this. I think the cam itself has a tendency to leave the iris open as much as possible (and even use its NDs for that matter). Portrait mode should do that even more.

About how to semimanually control the iris/shutter: others have much more experience, I saw some threads on that. Anyone?

Finally the optical quality, I tested this a bit. I noticed quite a lot of vignetting at full wide (visible as brightness falloff in vegas video scopes), but no edge softness. There was considerable edge softness at full tele however.
Pieter Jongerius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2007, 03:09 PM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 101
Why use ND filters on the HV20

Alright, here goes: I think I'm still on topic if I ask the following...

I read from the responses that many people are interested in external ND filters, even for the HV20. I seem to be the only one (cry ;) to mention te built-in ones in relation to external ND filters.

If you consider the built-in ones and some of the stuff I wrote above: Why do you still want to use them? No, honestly :))

tnx
Pieter
Pieter Jongerius is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XA and VIXIA Series AVCHD Camcorders > Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:55 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network