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Canon XA and VIXIA Series AVCHD Camcorders
For the Canon XA25, XA20, XA10 and all VIXIA / LEGRIA Series AVCHD camcorders.


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Old September 9th, 2011, 12:31 PM   #1
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need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

I have browsed countless forums and seen videos...
I can't seem to decide....
the M41 has the same sensor but a lower quality lens than the other 2
the g10 has a good lens and a few extra manual control (I think the M41 has very few if any), and the XA adds the convenience of the detachable grip and zebra and peaking

there is quite a gap between the M41 and the XA in terms of cost (almost 3 times the price!) whereas the G10 is kind of in the middle

what I like about these camcorders is the alleged good low light performance.
Can anyone tell me how many manual control you have on the M41 and if it's enough as a B-cam?
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Old September 9th, 2011, 02:50 PM   #2
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

Dont know much about the M41.
The G10 and XA10, are the same camera, imaging wise. The XA10 does have a few extra features. If sound is important, go for the XA10. Both cameras will deliver higher resolution than your 5d.
I had a play with an XA10 a couple of weeks ago, outstanding quality, and very user friendly.
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Old September 9th, 2011, 03:19 PM   #3
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

The m41 has practically the same low light IQ with the other two. Both the XA10 and the G10 will go higher in db gain (+24 vs +18 db) but +18 is more than enough and you don't really want to go any higher than that anyway.

m41 gives you the option of manual exposure through an exposure lock/exposure compensation mode.
you hit exposure on the touch screen menu, select M and the camera locks the current exposure. After that you can go +/-3stops and adjust exposure.

On the XA10 you have some more control thanks to the additional exposure wheel on the back of the camera.

I believe the m41 has the best value for money ratio among all cameras in the market as a B-role camera.

The lens doesn't seem to be that bad (i can't see a difference with the XA10 lens) and it is as fast as the lens on the G10 & XA10, just not as wide, starting at a 43mm equivalent compare to 30.5mm on the other two.

I have to mention though that AF is equaly bad on all three (well I haven't tried the G10 but I can safely assume that it is the same as the XA10)
The XF100 with the descent sized focus ring is much better in this regard as you can at least use manual focus a lot easier.
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Old September 11th, 2011, 05:12 PM   #4
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

aside from the handle and audio controls.
what are the other differences in manual controls between the G10 and the XA-10?
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Old September 12th, 2011, 02:10 AM   #5
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

The XA 10, with the handle off, is essentially a G 10 with 64 GB of on-board storage.
To the best of my knowledge, the controls, functions, menus, etc. are near identical.
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Old September 12th, 2011, 07:46 AM   #6
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Young View Post
The XA 10, with the handle off, is essentially a G 10 with 64 GB of on-board storage.
To the best of my knowledge, the controls, functions, menus, etc. are near identical.
The XA10 has a standard hot shoe located on the front of the unit, where the handle connects, while the G10 has one of those Canon "intelligent" shoes located at the back of the camera near the viewfinder. The G10 also does not have the infrared mode that the XA10 has. Those are the biggest differences (besides the built in memory size).
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Old September 12th, 2011, 09:04 AM   #7
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

I read a lot about the rattle issue for the XA10, supposedly the XLR switches

can someone advise on how to check this in store, so that I don't end up buying a lemon?
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Old September 12th, 2011, 09:09 AM   #8
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

The rattle is not an issue, if you test hard enough you will find its the same on most Canon and other cams that utilise this kind of sliding switch. It was the same a few years ago with the XH-A1. Its not a fault, simply the design of the switches.
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Old September 13th, 2011, 06:40 AM   #9
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

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Originally Posted by Colin Rowe View Post
The rattle is not an issue, if you test hard enough you will find its the same on most Canon and other cams that utilise this kind of sliding switch. It was the same a few years ago with the XH-A1. Its not a fault, simply the design of the switches.
this is not an issue?!

Colin, you are kidding right? not sure someone included a permanent "maracas" mode
if it's simply the design than it's... bad design

watching the last few seconds it looks like a toy...
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Old September 13th, 2011, 07:38 AM   #10
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

The rattles on my XH-A1 were nothing lile that, likewise the XA10 I used a couple of weeks ago. It sounded very much like the fixing screws at the back of the handle rattling in the final shot. All the sliding switches are loose on the Canons, if you tap them they rattle. Never thought of it as a problem on cameras at this price point. Go and check a camera out if you get the chance, you will see what I mean.
But it definately sounded like the screws rattling, I would not think the switches are heavy enough to make that sort of sound. As I said, the switches on the XA10 I used, rattled, if you flicked them, but nothing like that.
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Old September 13th, 2011, 07:49 AM   #11
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Federico Perale View Post
I read a lot about the rattle issue for the XA10, supposedly the XLR switches

can someone advise on how to check this in store, so that I don't end up buying a lemon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Rowe View Post
The rattles on my XH-A1 were nothing lile that, likewise the XA10 I used a couple of weeks ago. It sounded very much like the fixing screws at the back of the handle rattling in the final shot. All the sliding switches are loose on the Canons, if you tap them they rattle. Never thought of it as a problem on cameras at this price point. Go and check a camera out if you get the chance, you will see what I mean.
But it definately sounded like the screws rattling, I would not think the switches are heavy enough to make that sort of sound. As I said, the switches on the XA10 I used, rattled, if you flicked them, but nothing like that.
thanks that's precisely why I had asked what to look for when buying it - I guess holding the handle alone and shaking it like in the videos would be enough to see if you are buying a lemon. But Canon should rectify this - not sure I agree with your comment implying that a customer shelling out 1600 on a camcorder shouldn't complain about something like this? I have owned a number of quality camcorders (ex1r, Z1 etc) as well as cheaper ones (panasonic TMs etc) and never had maracas mode : )
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Old September 13th, 2011, 08:56 PM   #12
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Rowe View Post
Both cameras will deliver higher resolution than your 5d. I had a play with an XA10 a couple of weeks ago, outstanding quality, and very user friendly.
Is this true? I've never heard that the XA10 has better resolution than the 5D?
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Old September 15th, 2011, 08:58 AM   #13
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Rowe View Post
The rattles on my XH-A1 were nothing lile that, likewise the XA10 I used a couple of weeks ago. It sounded very much like the fixing screws at the back of the handle rattling in the final shot. All the sliding switches are loose on the Canons, if you tap them they rattle. Never thought of it as a problem on cameras at this price point. Go and check a camera out if you get the chance, you will see what I mean.
But it definately sounded like the screws rattling, I would not think the switches are heavy enough to make that sort of sound. As I said, the switches on the XA10 I used, rattled, if you flicked them, but nothing like that.
OK so went to a shop and held the XA in my hands... that thing bloody rattles like crazy! the build quality of the handle resembles that of a toy, frankly speaking.
I also tried an XF100 and the switches rattled too, but it has a small plastic cover so it's a non-issue

even the guy @ the shop was speechless, and couldn't believe how stupid this was, even more because the noise occurs right on top of the mics
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Old September 15th, 2011, 09:28 AM   #14
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Rowe View Post
The rattles on my XH-A1 were nothing lile that, likewise the XA10 I used a couple of weeks ago. It sounded very much like the fixing screws at the back of the handle rattling in the final shot. All the sliding switches are loose on the Canons, if you tap them they rattle. Never thought of it as a problem on cameras at this price point. Go and check a camera out if you get the chance, you will see what I mean.
But it definately sounded like the screws rattling, I would not think the switches are heavy enough to make that sort of sound. As I said, the switches on the XA10 I used, rattled, if you flicked them, but nothing like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Lee Gordon View Post
Is this true? I've never heard that the XA10 has better resolution than the 5D?
me neither
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Old September 16th, 2011, 06:25 AM   #15
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Re: need a b-cam for my 5d: m41, G10 or XA-10?

Its common knowledge. DSLRs do an awful job of downsamping. Its called line skipping, basically they ditch 2 out of 3 lines when downconverting from, for example, 18 MP, to the 2 MP needed for HD video. Consumer Video cams have a far higher resolution. Google it, its all out there.
http://ninofilm.net/blog/2010/04/17/536/
http://poetzerofilm.com/2010/04/8-re...to-buy-a-dslr/
Guys, please dont think I am knocking DSLRs, I use one, and love it, but I am very aware of its limitations, and use it accordingly. A DSLR in it current stage of development could never replace my video cams. In the near future we will see a great deal of activity from manufacturers as they continue to develop large sensor video cameras. The imminent VG20 from Sony looks very interesting indeed.
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