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Canon XC Series UHD Camcorders
All about the Canon XC10 4K hybrid stills / video camera.


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Old April 9th, 2015, 10:01 AM   #46
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

Completely baffled by the XC10. IMO, it's neither a good still-image camera (according to specs on B&H, only does JPEG!) nor a good video camera (lacks so many features).

I suppose this hybrid and the numerous compromises will still appeal to some. But I have to wonder just how big of a crowd did Canon forecast for this model? I just can't see it selling very much.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 12:41 PM   #47
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

^ It has a broadcast codec, good controls, mechanical shutter "to eliminate rolling shutter" for better cadence, all of which no other 1" camera has. Now the question is if the mediocre video sample was shot with a limited DR setting like EOS DSLR and the camera can do much better with wider DR settings?

Last edited by Philip Lipetz; April 9th, 2015 at 01:59 PM.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 01:17 PM   #48
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

Does the mechanical shutter actually work for video or is it just for stills?
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Old April 9th, 2015, 02:24 PM   #49
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

My original source has it wrong. The mechanical shutter is only for stills. Sorry to get your hopes up. Mine were.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 03:30 PM   #50
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

On the specs it states that 5axis stabilization works for HD.
Does anybody know if there is some other kind of stabilization in 4K or none at all?
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Old April 9th, 2015, 03:41 PM   #51
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

I agree with Adrian, I see this camera as 4K B-cam to my C100. I don't work with huge budgets so I need something with the same look at a reasonable price. Very few clients pay enough to spend ages colour correcting or grading. So far I've been using dslrs like the 7D and 700D as B-cams as their look/colours are more or less similar to the C100 (although if I'm honest, the image is hella soft). I could never get the Canon camcorders to match well as they are too 'video'. The dslrs are a pain in the arse to be frank. If this offers a look and usability that matches the C series then it could be a winner. I love the ergonomics of the C100 (although the evf and screen are awful!).
I agree that it is over priced at present. I would hope that it goes on sale for considerably less than 2000. If that were the case I'd be very interested. Of course, that would depend on seeing quality real world testing. The video that Canon released with the pretty girl wondering around Paris is pants. It seems the girl and crew decided to make 'another boring day in Paris' video. We have no idea how it will handle run and gun, poor lighting etc. These areas are real strong points for the C100 although the aforementioned evf and screen and the tedious black balance let it down.
It'll be interesting to see the first tests and thoughts of the first members of the forum who get their hands on one.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 06:44 PM   #52
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

The Canon EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6L IS lists for $2,549.00.

The XC10 lists for less, and you get a camera attached to it!

For new media and web applications there is zero.point.zero reason to complain about this new product.
Including any moire, CA, etc.
It's an impossible miracle of science and I feel like yelling ala Louis C.K. (who will probably be using this on some future project) that todays camera choices and price points are ridiculously amazing.

If you want to make a feature film for serious festival or distribution contention... rent something appropriate.

I wish I could give Canon's engineers a hug.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 11:01 PM   #53
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

Basically this is an 8mp 30fps still camera. This could be invaluable for certain applications.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 11:12 PM   #54
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

Dutch -- you win the Post Of The Day award. I think you're spot on. Many thanks,
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Old April 10th, 2015, 03:40 AM   #55
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Rall View Post
For new media and web applications there is zero.point.zero reason to complain about this new product.
If you are going to lower your expectations, why stop there. Just get the FZ1000 and get a capable still camera for your family photos.

I really don't get it ... you see a new overpriced product, recognize its shortcomings and then look for applications where it would be (just) good enough to justify its existence. If you don't care about image quality all that much and much less about bitrate, why not get something with a constant aperture across the zoom range and a power-zoom at that.
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Old April 10th, 2015, 06:08 AM   #56
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

Dutch, you get out of here with all that sensible talk!

I'm also intrigued by this camera. Such a small camera that should make incredible images, 4K or not. I love the form factor.

For those who suggest getting a cheaper FZ1000 or LX100, neither of those cameras has an earphone jack. Talk about a glaring omission! There's no way I'd get a video camera that doesn't give me the most basic ability to monitor audio, I don't care how much cheaper they are. That puts those cameras squarely in the "stills camera first, video camera second" category.
The XC10 is definitely a video camera first.
I don't know if the XC10 has the ability to change the audio levels internally, like the VG30. We'll see.
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Old April 10th, 2015, 06:28 AM   #57
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Rall View Post
The Canon EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6L IS lists for $2,549.00.

The XC10 lists for less, and you get a camera attached to it!

For new media and web applications there is zero.point.zero reason to complain about this new product.
Including any moire, CA, etc.
It's an impossible miracle of science and I feel like yelling ala Louis C.K. (who will probably be using this on some future project) that todays camera choices and price points are ridiculously amazing.

If you want to make a feature film for serious festival or distribution contention... rent something appropriate.

I wish I could give Canon's engineers a hug.
I surely hope you're being sarcastic here. The XC10 in no way has the EF 28-300mm L lens you mention:

EF 28 to 300 L
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Old April 10th, 2015, 07:29 AM   #58
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Sharp View Post
I surely hope you're being sarcastic here. The XC10 in no way has the EF 28-300mm L lens you mention:

EF 28 to 300 L

He's not being sarcastic, and he's not saying the XC10 has *that* particular lens.

He's saying the XC10 has nearly the same focal length and reach of that lens for nearly the same price, with a camera attached to it.

And since the XC10 lens has to resolve for 4K, you can assume the optical quality is at least on par with (if not better than) the EF 28-300.
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Old April 10th, 2015, 10:20 AM   #59
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

For people who have been using a 4:2:0 camera the difference in Canon's 8 bit 4:2:2 color implementations is significant. Our nonprofit used to have a Canon XF100, really rotten resolution, but the colors were magnificent and the 4:2:2 made them easier to grade and compress. The XC10 will also have 10 bit 4:2:2 4K output to Atomos Shogun 4K recorders for those time when you want the absolute best color.

Canon is well known for color science. I have never understood why people obsess about other features when the delivered image is what ultimately matters. Our C100s deliver outstounding results from a 8 bit 4:2:0 color space, however, we had to use an external Ninja recorder to get 8 bit 4:2:2 when we were doing critical work that will be heavily graded. Perhaps we will not have to do that with the XC10.

Is it a pro camera? It is much better than the cheaper all in ones with the XC10 having button layouts that more closely resemble those found on our C100s that make those cameras a joy to use. Which brings up another issue - ease of use. We have filmmaker blog darlings such as the Sony A7s, but when I don't have the time to do fussy setup I always grab a C100. Will the A7s do more, does it have much better low light, does it deliver more filmlike DOF? Yes, but that is not what always matters when I am doing a million things at the same time. Not when I want to have the colors I like straight off the card. Canon's wide DR setting is amazing.

Several open questions remain about the XC10. Was the Paris video really the best it could do? What are the low light limits? How good is the in camera oversampling as it reduces 4K to HD formats. (We will probably mainly use the XC10 as a 4:2:2 HD camera for web delivery.) Is audio adjustable and are there audio meters? Will CFast 2 cards become affordable? Or is the most affordable way to record long 4K sessions is on a Shogun? How good are the remote control capabilities?

Finally, for those complain about the price please remember that the kit includes a Sandisk 64Gb CFast 2 card and a card reader. this a $450 dollar value at actual retail sales prices. this lowers the real cost of only the body. My guess is that as usual the actual retail sales price will be about 20% less than the $2500 list price, bringing the price of the camera alone into the mid 1000s. For this you get better layout, and better color space.

If you want to complain then question the decision to use CFast cards rather than one of the recent hyper speed third generation SD cards. That is an expensive decision. SO why did Canon do that? The Canon C300 Mkii uses CFast cards. It may not be an accident that the C300 MKii and the XC10 were announced in the same press release. They are positioning the XC10 as a B, or more likely C, camera in top end shoots so it makes sense to have card compatibility.
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Old April 10th, 2015, 12:08 PM   #60
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Re: Canon announces XC10 and new codec XF-AVC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Lipetz View Post
They are positioning the XC10 as a B, or more likely C, camera in top end shoots so it makes sense to have card compatibility.
Now this makes sense to me. For what I need (single cam), it does indeed make zero sense to pick up the XC10.

I have created a spreadsheet with about 20 attributes (things like 4:2:2, XLR inputs, storage card type, etc.) Then placed weightings on them. For me, 4:2:2 was very high on that list whereas things like 24-bit audio were very low. Top contenders are the PXW-X70 and XF100. When I add the XC10 into this spreadsheet, it scores very very low.

But going back to the B-cam concept. I do see the XC10 as a strong contender that need one.
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