any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? at DVinfo.net

Malcolm Hamilton · April 7th, 2011, 10:27 AM

Hi there,
Shopping for a CF card, and just wanting to confirm that with the XF100, any card faster than 60MB/s is a waste of money.
thanks,
Malcolm

Chris Medico · April 7th, 2011, 10:36 AM

It depends. Is it required for recording? Nope.

Is is appreciated when you are offloading onto the computer? Absolutely!

Malcolm Hamilton · April 7th, 2011, 10:44 AM

Ahh... I hadn't thought of that.
Thanks very much Chris.
M.

Pete Bauer · April 7th, 2011, 10:53 AM

I use a Lexar USB UDMA card reader. Once I get a chance to compare file transfer speeds between my 5Dmii's slower Sandisk 16GB card and new 64GB, 90MB/sec cards for my new XF105, I'll try to remember to post if it makes a substantial difference.

Erik Norgaard · April 7th, 2011, 11:02 AM

For recording, write speed is 50Mbit/s, so 60MByte/s is well above that. For reading to you computer, assuming USB2.0 speed, you have max 480Mbit/s that's about 48MByte/s. Again 60MByte/s is above that. Only if you have USB3.0 can you get faster transfer speeds.

Now that's just according to the specs and not based on any testing I have done. But, yes, above 60MB/s seems overkill. If you use Lexar CF that's labelled as 400x. SanDisk labels by MB/s.

BR, Erik

Tim Polster · April 9th, 2011, 10:42 AM

Make sure you have mega bits and mega bytes sorted out. I do not think they have 60 mega bytes per second CF cards. This is the speed of internal IDE hard drives. If they do they will be way overkill for recording in-camera.

I have been using 133x CF cards (very affordable) with my Nano which can record 100 megabits with no issues.

Pete Bauer · April 9th, 2011, 01:49 PM

Yes, the cards are capable of that speed. The UDMA6 Sandisks I just got are rated at 90MB/sec where they define a MB as 1,000,000 bytes.

However, as noted already, the host device may be the limiting factor. Using a USB 2.0 Lexar card reader, I observed that transferring MXF files to my system was at about the same 25-30MB/sec that I get with my older, slower CF cards.

Not sure why USB3 readers are taking so long to get to market, but I hope it won't be long until I use a card reader that will be much faster. Looks like Delkin is releasing a USB3 reader presently, and there are Express Card readers out there claiming much faster transfers. These should be much faster and make transferring files a less onerous task. A slower, less expensive CF card is fine if you're using USB2, but if you want best performance in the coming months, a faster card wouldn't be a bad investment.

Pat Reddy · April 9th, 2011, 03:18 PM

Canon has a list of cards that they know will work with the XF series:

Canon Professional Network - CF card compatibility for Canon?s XF-series camcorders

Some will work but you won't be able to use the slow motion mode. Canon also just released a firmware update that fixes some card compatibility issues:

Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : XF100

Pat

Tim Polster · April 9th, 2011, 03:46 PM

After looking at that chart please disregard my post. It seems 300x is the minimum they are stating for all modes. That is quite a bit faster than just the 50 mbps bitrate.

Nigel Barker · April 10th, 2011, 03:35 AM

To be on the safe side I wouldn't buy any card that wasn't on Canon's list of blessed cards. We have some SANdisk Extreme 32GB cards which work flawlessly.

Erik Norgaard · April 10th, 2011, 01:07 PM

I use these, not on Canon's list, Lexar® Professional 400x CompactFlash® (CF) Card,

Lexar® Professional 400x CompactFlash® (CF) Card | Lexar

They specify 60MB/s, standard is that uppercase B means Byte and lower case b means bits. So, yes 60MB/s. Lexar does note that they use "metric" nomenclature for storage capacity so M=10^6 and not 2^20.

I've tried slow and it works. I don't really get why slow require faster cards, but then I don't really get why I would record in slow either - I'll just slow the footage to my liking in post, more flexible and I can record sound.

Sam Young · April 10th, 2011, 11:23 PM

So the transcend 400x cards probably will work with the xf100, recording at 50Mpbs? The card is supposed to be "Write_60 MB/sec (Max)"

Amazon.com: Transcend 400X - 64 GB Compact Flash Memory Card TS64GCF400 (Blue): Electronics

Nigel Barker · April 11th, 2011, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Norgaard

I've tried slow and it works. I don't really get why slow require faster cards, but then I don't really get why I would record in slow either - I'll just slow the footage to my liking in post, more flexible and I can record sound.

Proper slow motion footage is recorded at a higher than regular frame rate so that when played back at normal rate it is slowed down. For the XF100/105 that's up to 60fps at 1280x720 @50Mbps. This is the way that slo-mo has always been done in film it's literally overcranking pulling the film through the gate at a higher rate. Slowing down regular speed footage in post will end up blurry unless you use something like Twixtor.

Nigel Barker · April 11th, 2011, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Young

So the transcend 400x cards probably will work with the xf100, recording at 50Mpbs? The card is supposed to be "Write_60 MB/sec (Max)

The Transcend 600X is on the list but cannot be recorded to fast enough for slow motion. If a model from a mainstream brand is not on that list then I think there is probably a good reason. It's a pity that Canon don't publish the list of those cards & brands that failed their test. As it's known that not all cards will work it makes sense to only buy those that are certified.

Sam Young · April 11th, 2011, 01:30 AM

Thank you Nigel. So even if I don't plan on using the slowmo function, the transcend 400x card probably won't record at 50Mbps on the xf100?

April 7th, 2011, 10:27 AM	#1
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? Hi there, Shopping for a CF card, and just wanting to confirm that with the XF100, any card faster than 60MB/s is a waste of money. thanks, Malcolm

April 7th, 2011, 10:36 AM	#2
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? It depends. Is it required for recording? Nope. Is is appreciated when you are offloading onto the computer? Absolutely! __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

April 7th, 2011, 10:44 AM	#3
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? Ahh... I hadn't thought of that. Thanks very much Chris. M.

April 7th, 2011, 10:53 AM	#4
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? I use a Lexar USB UDMA card reader. Once I get a chance to compare file transfer speeds between my 5Dmii's slower Sandisk 16GB card and new 64GB, 90MB/sec cards for my new XF105, I'll try to remember to post if it makes a substantial difference. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

April 7th, 2011, 11:02 AM	#5
Erik Norgaard Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 238	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? For recording, write speed is 50Mbit/s, so 60MByte/s is well above that. For reading to you computer, assuming USB2.0 speed, you have max 480Mbit/s that's about 48MByte/s. Again 60MByte/s is above that. Only if you have USB3.0 can you get faster transfer speeds. Now that's just according to the specs and not based on any testing I have done. But, yes, above 60MB/s seems overkill. If you use Lexar CF that's labelled as 400x. SanDisk labels by MB/s. BR, Erik

April 9th, 2011, 10:42 AM	#6
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? Make sure you have mega bits and mega bytes sorted out. I do not think they have 60 mega bytes per second CF cards. This is the speed of internal IDE hard drives. If they do they will be way overkill for recording in-camera. I have been using 133x CF cards (very affordable) with my Nano which can record 100 megabits with no issues.

April 9th, 2011, 01:49 PM	#7
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? Yes, the cards are capable of that speed. The UDMA6 Sandisks I just got are rated at 90MB/sec where they define a MB as 1,000,000 bytes. However, as noted already, the host device may be the limiting factor. Using a USB 2.0 Lexar card reader, I observed that transferring MXF files to my system was at about the same 25-30MB/sec that I get with my older, slower CF cards. Not sure why USB3 readers are taking so long to get to market, but I hope it won't be long until I use a card reader that will be much faster. Looks like Delkin is releasing a USB3 reader presently, and there are Express Card readers out there claiming much faster transfers. These should be much faster and make transferring files a less onerous task. A slower, less expensive CF card is fine if you're using USB2, but if you want best performance in the coming months, a faster card wouldn't be a bad investment. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

April 9th, 2011, 03:18 PM	#8
Pat Reddy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 288	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? Canon has a list of cards that they know will work with the XF series: Canon Professional Network - CF card compatibility for Canon?s XF-series camcorders Some will work but you won't be able to use the slow motion mode. Canon also just released a firmware update that fixes some card compatibility issues: Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : XF100 Pat

April 9th, 2011, 03:46 PM	#9
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? After looking at that chart please disregard my post. It seems 300x is the minimum they are stating for all modes. That is quite a bit faster than just the 50 mbps bitrate.

April 10th, 2011, 03:35 AM	#10
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? To be on the safe side I wouldn't buy any card that wasn't on Canon's list of blessed cards. We have some SANdisk Extreme 32GB cards which work flawlessly.

April 10th, 2011, 01:07 PM	#11
Erik Norgaard Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 238	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? I use these, not on Canon's list, Lexar® Professional 400x CompactFlash® (CF) Card, Lexar® Professional 400x CompactFlash® (CF) Card \| Lexar They specify 60MB/s, standard is that uppercase B means Byte and lower case b means bits. So, yes 60MB/s. Lexar does note that they use "metric" nomenclature for storage capacity so M=10^6 and not 2^20. I've tried slow and it works. I don't really get why slow require faster cards, but then I don't really get why I would record in slow either - I'll just slow the footage to my liking in post, more flexible and I can record sound.

April 10th, 2011, 11:23 PM	#12
Sam Young Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dallas, Texas/Hong Kong Posts: 154	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? So the transcend 400x cards probably will work with the xf100, recording at 50Mpbs? The card is supposed to be "Write_60 MB/sec (Max)" Amazon.com: Transcend 400X - 64 GB Compact Flash Memory Card TS64GCF400 (Blue): Electronics Amazon.com: Transcend 400X - 64 GB Compact Flash Memory Card TS64GCF400 (Blue): Electronics

April 11th, 2011, 01:30 AM	#15
Sam Young Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dallas, Texas/Hong Kong Posts: 154	Re: any card over 60MB/s is overkill, correct? Thank you Nigel. So even if I don't plan on using the slowmo function, the transcend 400x card probably won't record at 50Mbps on the xf100?