Shooting moving water? at DVinfo.net

Bob Prichard · May 15th, 2011, 09:40 PM

I will be shooting in Yosemite for two weeks with my 305 and wonder what is the best set-up for shooting waterfalls and raging rivers. There will be a lot of fast moving water this year because of all the snow.

Is 30i better than 30 or 60p?

What shutter speeds work best?

Appreciate hearing from those who have done this.

Final product will be blu-ray DVDs and HD downloads.

Jeff Anselmo · May 15th, 2011, 11:37 PM

Hi Bob,

I recently shot in southern New Mexico and the Rio Grande river. It wasn't raging by all accounts but it was still flowing. I personally shot at 24p/1080/50Mbps setting, and it looked pretty good on my NLE LCD screen (haven't had a chance to put it on Blu-Ray or DVD yet).

(Normally at 24p, you'd want to set your shutter at 1/48th speed, to really emulate the film-look.)

I've also shot at 30p and 60p at 720, some for overcranking shots (shutter set at 1/60th). But when we had snowfall this past winter, I set the shutter a bit higher (1/250th?) to really capture the falling snowflakes.

If you have enough CF cards, I'd shoot at various settings, frame rates, and shutter speeds and really see what you like best.

Have fun,

Bo Sundvall · May 16th, 2011, 01:42 AM

Hi

I don't own a XF camcorder (yet) but I've used my XH-A1 filming a lot of running water. My experience is that iterlaced gives a lot more blocking artifacts when there are a lot of small moving details in the picture, for example fast running water, water with small waves or leafs moving in the wind. Probably depending on the fact that interlaced makes every half frame different from the previous/next, stressing the codec and make it break down when there is too much moving details.

The 4:2:2 50Mbps codec on the XF models might handle those situations better compared to the 4:2:0 25Mbps HDV codec, but the XF must also handle a lot more pixels and more color information so it might be a lot to do for the codec anyway.

The only way to be shure is to record some running water in different modes, intelaced and progressive, and check out the result. If it would be me, I would shoot progressive.

Regards,

/Bo

Doug Jensen · May 16th, 2011, 05:26 AM

Bob,

Waterfalls and rivers are no big deal for the XF305. You shouldn't have to do anything special or waste time doing testing in advance -- if you normally shoot with proper settings in the first place.

I would recommended 1920x01080 30P @ 1/60. Interlaced should not even be in your consideration unless you enjoy the look of home movies, live sports, or local TV news. If you want a cinematic look, make sure to shoot progressive at full 1920x1080. Set your zebras properly and pay very close attention to exposure on the white water and clouds and you should come back home with some nice footage.

Here's some Yosemite footage I shot one day last spring with my EX1. Wish I'd had more time. You should get some very nice footage with two weeks to spend.

Bob Prichard · May 16th, 2011, 10:28 PM

Doug,

Thanks for the info. Beautiful footage of Yosemite. Really enjoyed your DVD on the XF305. Big help on learning how to use the camera.

Sareesh Sudhakaran · May 17th, 2011, 01:43 AM

As said on Lula. Lovely video Doug.

Eric Olson · May 17th, 2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

I would recommended 1920x01080 30P @ 1/60. Interlaced should not even be in your consideration unless you enjoy the look of home movies, live sports, or local TV news.

If you want to do any slow motion with the waterfalls later use 720p60 at 50Mbps.

Bob Prichard · May 19th, 2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Olson

If you want to do any slow motion with the waterfalls later use 720p60 at 50Mbps.

Sounds interesting.

What shutter speed have you used for this?

Gerald OConnor · May 19th, 2011, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Prichard

Doug,

Thanks for the info. Beautiful footage of Yosemite. Really enjoyed your DVD on the XF305. Big help on learning how to use the camera.

I want to thank you Doug also, I just finished watching your xf300/305 DVD's and will adapt them to my xf100 that should be here in the am. what I have found with a lot of posted Vimeo videos in this forum is they were not set for mobile viewing so I can't watch many on my iPhone. I'm going to try a close up test of running water from my sink and also try slow motion with it. Thank you

Doug Jensen · May 19th, 2011, 08:46 PM

Gerald, I'm glad you liked the DVDs. I hope you recognized some of the locations just down the road from you. Including this video right in your own backyard:

Don't mention the name on here, let's keep it our secret.

Gerald OConnor · May 20th, 2011, 10:08 AM

Doug most all of your local shots I recognize they are great. I was looking for a mountain in one of your lake shots. Lol. I hope to shot this weekend or next in the same area for a buddy that rock climbs and he thinks im repealing down half way to shot his climb. Lol we will see about that. My xf100 is waiting for me at home. UPS dropped that and the wide-angle lens off today can't wait to try them out. And I bought a used set of you warming cards they should be there today to. Lol thanks again

May 15th, 2011, 09:40 PM	#1
Bob Prichard Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tiburon CA Posts: 123	Shooting moving water? I will be shooting in Yosemite for two weeks with my 305 and wonder what is the best set-up for shooting waterfalls and raging rivers. There will be a lot of fast moving water this year because of all the snow. Is 30i better than 30 or 60p? What shutter speeds work best? Appreciate hearing from those who have done this. Final product will be blu-ray DVDs and HD downloads.

May 15th, 2011, 11:37 PM	#2
Jeff Anselmo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 566	Re: Shooting moving water? Hi Bob, I recently shot in southern New Mexico and the Rio Grande river. It wasn't raging by all accounts but it was still flowing. I personally shot at 24p/1080/50Mbps setting, and it looked pretty good on my NLE LCD screen (haven't had a chance to put it on Blu-Ray or DVD yet). (Normally at 24p, you'd want to set your shutter at 1/48th speed, to really emulate the film-look.) I've also shot at 30p and 60p at 720, some for overcranking shots (shutter set at 1/60th). But when we had snowfall this past winter, I set the shutter a bit higher (1/250th?) to really capture the falling snowflakes. If you have enough CF cards, I'd shoot at various settings, frame rates, and shutter speeds and really see what you like best. Have fun, __________________ --JA

May 16th, 2011, 01:42 AM	#3
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Re: Shooting moving water? Hi I don't own a XF camcorder (yet) but I've used my XH-A1 filming a lot of running water. My experience is that iterlaced gives a lot more blocking artifacts when there are a lot of small moving details in the picture, for example fast running water, water with small waves or leafs moving in the wind. Probably depending on the fact that interlaced makes every half frame different from the previous/next, stressing the codec and make it break down when there is too much moving details. The 4:2:2 50Mbps codec on the XF models might handle those situations better compared to the 4:2:0 25Mbps HDV codec, but the XF must also handle a lot more pixels and more color information so it might be a lot to do for the codec anyway. The only way to be shure is to record some running water in different modes, intelaced and progressive, and check out the result. If it would be me, I would shoot progressive. Regards, /Bo

May 16th, 2011, 05:26 AM	#4
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,416	Re: Shooting moving water? Bob, Waterfalls and rivers are no big deal for the XF305. You shouldn't have to do anything special or waste time doing testing in advance -- if you normally shoot with proper settings in the first place. I would recommended 1920x01080 30P @ 1/60. Interlaced should not even be in your consideration unless you enjoy the look of home movies, live sports, or local TV news. If you want a cinematic look, make sure to shoot progressive at full 1920x1080. Set your zebras properly and pay very close attention to exposure on the white water and clouds and you should come back home with some nice footage. Here's some Yosemite footage I shot one day last spring with my EX1. Wish I'd had more time. You should get some very nice footage with two weeks to spend. A Spring Day in Yosemite National Park on Vimeo __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

May 16th, 2011, 10:28 PM	#5
Bob Prichard Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tiburon CA Posts: 123	Re: Shooting moving water? Doug, Thanks for the info. Beautiful footage of Yosemite. Really enjoyed your DVD on the XF305. Big help on learning how to use the camera.

May 17th, 2011, 01:43 AM	#6
Sareesh Sudhakaran Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mumbai, India Posts: 1,385	Re: Shooting moving water? As said on Lula. Lovely video Doug. __________________ Get the Free Comprehensive Guide to Rigging ANY Camera - one guide to rig them all - DSLRs to the Arri Alexa.

May 19th, 2011, 08:46 PM	#10
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,416	Re: Shooting moving water? Gerald, I'm glad you liked the DVDs. I hope you recognized some of the locations just down the road from you. Including this video right in your own backyard: Slo-Mo Water-skiing with the Canon XF305 on Vimeo Don't mention the name on here, let's keep it our secret. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

May 20th, 2011, 10:08 AM	#11
Gerald OConnor Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Princeton MA Posts: 142	Re: Shooting moving water? Doug most all of your local shots I recognize they are great. I was looking for a mountain in one of your lake shots. Lol. I hope to shot this weekend or next in the same area for a buddy that rock climbs and he thinks im repealing down half way to shot his climb. Lol we will see about that. My xf100 is waiting for me at home. UPS dropped that and the wide-angle lens off today can't wait to try them out. And I bought a used set of you warming cards they should be there today to. Lol thanks again