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-   -   I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts? (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xf-series-4k-hd-camcorders/534666-i-pre-ordered-xf400-thoughts.html)

Dan McGuckin September 14th, 2017 04:53 AM

I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
So as the title states I put my pre order in on this new camera. I currently film with a C100 mark 1 and have been wanting to get into 4k content with the same auto focus that my 7d mark ii has. I would love a C200 but the cost is prohibitive and my wife can barely figure out my C100 as it is.
We film custom content for clients around the world for web and computer delivery. Almost everything is shot hand held with studio lighting and with a shotgun mic.
I use the same lens every day and can't remember the last time it has come off the camera. As much as I love my C100, I just don't think I need it anymore since I am not shooting anything with shallow DOF anymore, nor filming broadcast quality. I really just want something that I can pick up and use, easy AF with 4k and this seems to check all the boxes.
I had been also thinking about the Canon XC15 - but the lack of handle, no wrist strap and 4k to CFast cards was holding me back.
How do you guys think the quality of the video (24p) will be compared to what I'm shooting with the C100?
Here is what we currently shoot on our Youtube documentary series "The Diary Of A Fetish Model" - NSFW if you want to see how we film and how the C100 quality looks.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX9...KPbv4is3cfFhxg

Chris Hurd September 14th, 2017 08:43 AM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
Hi Dan,

I can't comment on your question about 24p quality since I haven't actually seen it myself yet.

But I can tell you this. I sat in on a press briefing for the XF400 and Canon USA said something very interesting about it that really got my attention.

And that is, there's a lot of C200 in the XF400. A lot. The same image processors, the same recording format and more. I outlined some of these borrowed features at Buyer’s Guide: Canon XF series Camcorders: XF400/405 at DV Info Net.

Too me, that's a big deal.

Plus, when the C200 eventually gets XF-AVC, there will be a similar firmware update for the XF400.

Now as far as the XC15 goes. It's great and all but I have two major issues with it. Since you shoot mostly handheld then I don't know if you're really going to need servo zoom capability, but the XF400 has it while the XC15 does not.

Also, the XC15 has a single CFast card while the XF400 has two SDHC slots, for dual-recording or relay-recording and I think that's a big advantage.

Hope this helps,

Graham Bernard September 14th, 2017 11:27 PM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
Hi Chris! Well this XF400 made me sit up. Much to consider here, muchly, muchly.... No reference to anything PAL? Or am I totally missing the plot?

Can that Lens cover do-hickey be removed? I'd want to plop onto my follow focus system and rods and apply my matte box with filters.

The Buyer's guide, right at the bottom I spied this one: "The XF105 adds a 3G-SDI jack."

G

Rob Cantwell September 15th, 2017 12:27 AM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
I got an email from a UK company that are selling these and from their specs page;

PAL:
3840x2160 50.00P YCC420 8bit /1920x1080 50.00P
YCC422 10bit /
3840x2160 25.00P YCC422 8bit / 1920x1080 25.00P
YCC422 10bit

Graham Bernard September 15th, 2017 12:41 AM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
OME!

Just found this on the Canon Pro site (?) :


TAXI!

G

Graham Bernard September 15th, 2017 12:52 AM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
And another....


Graham Bernard September 15th, 2017 01:01 AM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Cantwell (Post 1936444)
I got an email from a UK company that are selling these ....

Wow, thanks Rob! Is the battery Format the same as the XF300 series? Canon wouldn't change that?

Watching YT closely the pixel tech used allows for full HD on a further 2x on the optical by using the 1" and cropping to its sensor! Now THAT, dear hearts, is intelligent and stunning marketing.

Gonna need to get to my supplier to poach some real world Grazie-Shot SD-card vids.

TAXI!

Chris Hurd September 15th, 2017 07:06 AM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936447)
Is the battery Format the same as the XF300 series? Canon wouldn't change that?

*Ahem* Well...

As I mentioned in our News thread about this camera: Canon USA launches three 4K UHD handheld camcorders at DV Info Net

The XF400/405 design is actually more Canon XA than Canon XF.

And that includes the battery.

See this chart: Buyer’s Guide: Canon XF series Camcorders: Comparison Chart

The XF400/405 uses the Canon BP-828 battery (from the Canon XA series), not the BP-9xx as on the other XF camcorders.

And the BP-828 is already the fattest BP-8xx in that series; you can't go "one louder" from there, so the Optional Battery spec had to be left blank on the comparison chart.

I won't be able to fill in the typical battery endurance time until the user manual comes out (round about the same moment the camera starts shipping).

Chris Hurd September 15th, 2017 08:13 AM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936443)
Can that Lens cover do-hickey be removed? I'd want to plop onto my follow focus system and rods and apply my matte box with filters.

Yes it can be removed -- see the last photo at the bottom of this page:

Canon USA Launches Three 4K UHD Camcorders at DV Info Net

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936443)
The Buyer's guide, right at the bottom I spied this one: "The XF105 adds a 3G-SDI jack."

Bah! Corrected, thanks for catching that.

Graham Bernard September 15th, 2017 10:26 AM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
Back up the Bus! Internal recording to MP4! Really? Has MP4 become Broadcast Format? I'm must be missing something here.

My XF300 is MPEG2 and is BBC Compliant. Where's Alan when yah need him? So internal recording, going to SD cards was what I was trying to understand, penny is kinda dropping.

Chris Hurd September 15th, 2017 11:14 AM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
Well, it goes to XF-AVC sometime next year via firmware update, just like the C200.

Dan McGuckin September 15th, 2017 01:45 PM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
What I am concerned about is battery life. My C100 lasts forever on the extended batteries.

Graham Bernard September 16th, 2017 01:52 AM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd (Post 1936465)
Well, it goes to XF-AVC sometime next year via firmware update, just like the C200.

I have no experience of C200 and the XF-AVC. I'd need/want to gather footage for this and see how it breaks down on VegasPro15.

I'm starting to simultaneously both appreciate and dismiss just what Canon have, undeniably created here. And come up with an idea of their route map for the future:

* Was their decision in any way influenced to use MP4 to get files to an SD card and not use CF? CF equates to space on the camera.

* Needing to jump to fully archival editable footage, use the BNC to an external recorder. This kinda defeats the object?

* Technically and amazingly handing out a 1" sensor which can be masked in HD to supply double the reach. KUDOS! Having 4K on their XF range must be what has been asked for?

* What's that audio format? Do I know this? Do I want this?

* Histos, Peaking, Focus overlays? Am I behind the curve on today's usage?

* Stunning touch screen target-DoF in-camera decision making: I can SEE what I want to DO and just touch it.

Is this part of their XF range or part of another range? Last year I attended the BROADCAST shows here in London. Whilst mooching around the Canon stand I quizzed a very polite gentleman from Canon-Japan whether they'd be taking the XF300, which I enjoy using, and considering to further upgrade? Or was this the end? In poker it's caledl a "tell". IMO he kinda blanched.... I knew something was afoot then. And now I know. And again, IMO, this isn't an XF it's, well an XG maybe.

Canon have done this to me before. I waited for the XM1 to whither and die so I could get the XM2. I used and abused two of those puppies for, what, 10 years? I overlapped the HD revolution with my SD, garnering much impatient comments from my HDV colleagues, and waited and waited, still on SD tape, till I got hands-on with an XF300. That was it! HD; Peaking, histos, Focus bars; 3-rings; direct focussing and so many many filming options and opportunities! I was in a sweet shop. They'd created a monster in me: Canon were the people to go with for now and the future. I'd found Elysium: Remember the quote in Gladiator?

And now.... I'm back in 2004. Yes UHD 4K and at a price I can do. But?

Apologies if you find my ramblings tantamount to those of a gainsayer.

Chris Hurd September 16th, 2017 12:29 PM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936493)
Was their decision in any way influenced to use MP4 to get files to an SD card and not use CF? CF equates to space on the camera.

A couple of reasons for this.

Canon has already declared their move away from CF toward CFast with the EOS-1DX Mk. II flagship DSLR, their XC10 and XC15 camcorders and their 4K Cinema EOS cameras. So I seriously doubt we'll ever see any 4K video writing to a Canon camera on CF since the Cinema EOS-1DC has gone off the market. They're doing 4K either to CFast or SD.

As I've stated before, the XF400 borrows a lot from the Cinema EOS C200 and in many ways the XF400 is just a C200 in another form. It's a companion camcorder to the C200. There's no CFast on the C200, either. It's also dual SD cards. Same recording format and all. They're keeping like with like.

So those decisions regarding MP4 to SD were made first for the C200, and then carried over to the XF400/405. I think that had more to do with it than the real estate on the camcorder body.

They've got 4K going to CFast on a Canon camcorder in the form of the XC10 and XC15, but alas, no servo zoom on those.

I'd like to see a 4K version of the XF200/205 with CFast + SD, and a 4K version of the XF300/305 with dual CFast. But that's just me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936493)
Needing to jump to fully archival editable footage, use the BNC to an external recorder. This kinda defeats the object?

I think once it gets the XF-AVC upgrade via the firmware update promised for next year, that will qualify as such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936493)
Technically and amazingly handing out a 1" sensor which can be masked in HD to supply double the reach. KUDOS! Having 4K on their XF range must be what has been asked for?

Overdue, in my opinion. I think they should have done a 4K UHD version of the 300/305 two years ago. And we don't have *that* yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936493)
What's that audio format? Do I know this? Do I want this?

It's MPEG-4 AAC-LC (16-bit 2ch) and LPCM (16-bit 4ch), 48 kHz -- now you know, whether you like it or not!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936493)
Histos, Peaking, Focus overlays? Am I behind the curve on today's usage?

I'll say as soon as I know, but I can't imagine it not having all those internal goods... WFM, VS, focus assist, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936493)
Stunning touch screen target-DoF in-camera decision making: I can SEE what I want to DO and just touch it.

I was so skeptical of touch-screen AF until I bought an EOS 70D and started using it. Now I can't imagine not having it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936493)
Is this part of their XF range or part of another range?

They're calling it an XF, but it's a whole lot of XA. The body with the removeable handle, the SD card slots, the consumer VIXIA / LEGRIA version (that's the HF GX10), and more. It's an XA camcorder with an XF name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936493)
IMO, this isn't an XF it's, well an XG maybe.

It's an XA that records 4K!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Bernard (Post 1936493)
Apologies if you find my ramblings tantamount to those of a gainsayer.

That's what it takes to suss these things out. It wouldn't be an internet forum otherwise!

Graham Bernard September 16th, 2017 01:09 PM

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 
Thanks Chris.

Hmm... over the months to come, much to consider here. I really need to get at some Grazie-Shot samples onto my Vegas Timeline. Still, the price point is astonishing.

G


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