I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

So as the title states I put my pre order in on this new camera. I currently film with a C100 mark 1 and have been wanting to get into 4k content with the same auto focus that my 7d mark ii has. I would love a C200 but the cost is prohibitive and my wife can barely figure out my C100 as it is.
We film custom content for clients around the world for web and computer delivery. Almost everything is shot hand held with studio lighting and with a shotgun mic.
I use the same lens every day and can't remember the last time it has come off the camera. As much as I love my C100, I just don't think I need it anymore since I am not shooting anything with shallow DOF anymore, nor filming broadcast quality. I really just want something that I can pick up and use, easy AF with 4k and this seems to check all the boxes.
I had been also thinking about the Canon XC15 - but the lack of handle, no wrist strap and 4k to CFast cards was holding me back.
How do you guys think the quality of the video (24p) will be compared to what I'm shooting with the C100?
Here is what we currently shoot on our Youtube documentary series "The Diary Of A Fetish Model" - NSFW if you want to see how we film and how the C100 quality looks.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX9...KPbv4is3cfFhxg

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Hi Dan,

I can't comment on your question about 24p quality since I haven't actually seen it myself yet.

But I can tell you this. I sat in on a press briefing for the XF400 and Canon USA said something very interesting about it that really got my attention.

And that is, there's a lot of C200 in the XF400. A lot. The same image processors, the same recording format and more. I outlined some of these borrowed features at Buyer’s Guide: Canon XF series Camcorders: XF400/405 at DV Info Net.

Too me, that's a big deal.

Plus, when the C200 eventually gets XF-AVC, there will be a similar firmware update for the XF400.

Now as far as the XC15 goes. It's great and all but I have two major issues with it. Since you shoot mostly handheld then I don't know if you're really going to need servo zoom capability, but the XF400 has it while the XC15 does not.

Also, the XC15 has a single CFast card while the XF400 has two SDHC slots, for dual-recording or relay-recording and I think that's a big advantage.

Hope this helps,

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Hi Chris! Well this XF400 made me sit up. Much to consider here, muchly, muchly.... No reference to anything PAL? Or am I totally missing the plot?

Can that Lens cover do-hickey be removed? I'd want to plop onto my follow focus system and rods and apply my matte box with filters.

The Buyer's guide, right at the bottom I spied this one: "The XF105 adds a 3G-SDI jack."

G

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

I got an email from a UK company that are selling these and from their specs page;

PAL:
3840x2160 50.00P YCC420 8bit /1920x1080 50.00P
YCC422 10bit /
3840x2160 25.00P YCC422 8bit / 1920x1080 25.00P
YCC422 10bit

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

OME!

Just found this on the Canon Pro site (?) :


TAXI!

G

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

And another....

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Wow, thanks Rob! Is the battery Format the same as the XF300 series? Canon wouldn't change that?

Watching YT closely the pixel tech used allows for full HD on a further 2x on the optical by using the 1" and cropping to its sensor! Now THAT, dear hearts, is intelligent and stunning marketing.

Gonna need to get to my supplier to poach some real world Grazie-Shot SD-card vids.

TAXI!

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

*Ahem* Well...

As I mentioned in our News thread about this camera: Canon USA launches three 4K UHD handheld camcorders at DV Info Net

The XF400/405 design is actually more Canon XA than Canon XF.

And that includes the battery.

See this chart: Buyer’s Guide: Canon XF series Camcorders: Comparison Chart

The XF400/405 uses the Canon BP-828 battery (from the Canon XA series), not the BP-9xx as on the other XF camcorders.

And the BP-828 is already the fattest BP-8xx in that series; you can't go "one louder" from there, so the Optional Battery spec had to be left blank on the comparison chart.

I won't be able to fill in the typical battery endurance time until the user manual comes out (round about the same moment the camera starts shipping).

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Yes it can be removed -- see the last photo at the bottom of this page:

Canon USA Launches Three 4K UHD Camcorders at DV Info Net

Bah! Corrected, thanks for catching that.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Back up the Bus! Internal recording to MP4! Really? Has MP4 become Broadcast Format? I'm must be missing something here.

My XF300 is MPEG2 and is BBC Compliant. Where's Alan when yah need him? So internal recording, going to SD cards was what I was trying to understand, penny is kinda dropping.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Well, it goes to XF-AVC sometime next year via firmware update, just like the C200.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

What I am concerned about is battery life. My C100 lasts forever on the extended batteries.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

I have no experience of C200 and the XF-AVC. I'd need/want to gather footage for this and see how it breaks down on VegasPro15.

I'm starting to simultaneously both appreciate and dismiss just what Canon have, undeniably created here. And come up with an idea of their route map for the future:

* Was their decision in any way influenced to use MP4 to get files to an SD card and not use CF? CF equates to space on the camera.

* Needing to jump to fully archival editable footage, use the BNC to an external recorder. This kinda defeats the object?

* Technically and amazingly handing out a 1" sensor which can be masked in HD to supply double the reach. KUDOS! Having 4K on their XF range must be what has been asked for?

* What's that audio format? Do I know this? Do I want this?

* Histos, Peaking, Focus overlays? Am I behind the curve on today's usage?

* Stunning touch screen target-DoF in-camera decision making: I can SEE what I want to DO and just touch it.

Is this part of their XF range or part of another range? Last year I attended the BROADCAST shows here in London. Whilst mooching around the Canon stand I quizzed a very polite gentleman from Canon-Japan whether they'd be taking the XF300, which I enjoy using, and considering to further upgrade? Or was this the end? In poker it's caledl a "tell". IMO he kinda blanched.... I knew something was afoot then. And now I know. And again, IMO, this isn't an XF it's, well an XG maybe.

Canon have done this to me before. I waited for the XM1 to whither and die so I could get the XM2. I used and abused two of those puppies for, what, 10 years? I overlapped the HD revolution with my SD, garnering much impatient comments from my HDV colleagues, and waited and waited, still on SD tape, till I got hands-on with an XF300. That was it! HD; Peaking, histos, Focus bars; 3-rings; direct focussing and so many many filming options and opportunities! I was in a sweet shop. They'd created a monster in me: Canon were the people to go with for now and the future. I'd found Elysium: Remember the quote in Gladiator?

And now.... I'm back in 2004. Yes UHD 4K and at a price I can do. But?

Apologies if you find my ramblings tantamount to those of a gainsayer.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

A couple of reasons for this.

Canon has already declared their move away from CF toward CFast with the EOS-1DX Mk. II flagship DSLR, their XC10 and XC15 camcorders and their 4K Cinema EOS cameras. So I seriously doubt we'll ever see any 4K video writing to a Canon camera on CF since the Cinema EOS-1DC has gone off the market. They're doing 4K either to CFast or SD.

As I've stated before, the XF400 borrows a lot from the Cinema EOS C200 and in many ways the XF400 is just a C200 in another form. It's a companion camcorder to the C200. There's no CFast on the C200, either. It's also dual SD cards. Same recording format and all. They're keeping like with like.

So those decisions regarding MP4 to SD were made first for the C200, and then carried over to the XF400/405. I think that had more to do with it than the real estate on the camcorder body.

They've got 4K going to CFast on a Canon camcorder in the form of the XC10 and XC15, but alas, no servo zoom on those.

I'd like to see a 4K version of the XF200/205 with CFast + SD, and a 4K version of the XF300/305 with dual CFast. But that's just me.

I think once it gets the XF-AVC upgrade via the firmware update promised for next year, that will qualify as such.

Overdue, in my opinion. I think they should have done a 4K UHD version of the 300/305 two years ago. And we don't have *that* yet.

It's MPEG-4 AAC-LC (16-bit 2ch) and LPCM (16-bit 4ch), 48 kHz -- now you know, whether you like it or not!

I'll say as soon as I know, but I can't imagine it not having all those internal goods... WFM, VS, focus assist, etc.

I was so skeptical of touch-screen AF until I bought an EOS 70D and started using it. Now I can't imagine not having it.

They're calling it an XF, but it's a whole lot of XA. The body with the removeable handle, the SD card slots, the consumer VIXIA / LEGRIA version (that's the HF GX10), and more. It's an XA camcorder with an XF name.

It's an XA that records 4K!

That's what it takes to suss these things out. It wouldn't be an internet forum otherwise!

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Thanks Chris.

Hmm... over the months to come, much to consider here. I really need to get at some Grazie-Shot samples onto my Vegas Timeline. Still, the price point is astonishing.

G

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

no mention of histogram but it did mention these;

Audio:
Recording MPEG-4 AAC-LC (16-bit 2CH) / LPCM (16-bit 4CH)
Control Manual or Auto
Reference Tone 1KHz, -12dB / -18dB / -20dB / Off
Microphone level metre Yes

System:
Panel:
Type LCD Capacitive touch panel
Size 3.5-inch (8.9 cm)
Dots (approx. 1.56 million dots)
Adjustable Yes

Waveform Monitor No
Focus Assist Yes. Focus Guide Function in MF
Peaking Yes. Selectable Peaking Colour: Red / Blue / Yellow
Zebra Yes. 70%, 100%
Markers Yes. Horizontal (grey) / Horizontal (white) / Grid (grey)/ Grid (white)

its pretty spendy at €3,627.

R

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Ooo.... I didn't see that! Thanks Rob.


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Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

USA prices posted on the Canon web page as of today:
XF400 - US$2999
XF405 - US$3499
VAT must be substantial

SDHC/SDXC cards strike me as more readily found and lower cost than CF, a plus. However, the smaller size is a mixed blessing at best, especially for less nimble fingers.

Weight fully decked out - 3.7 lbs, body only 2.5 lbs
In comparison the XA20 body is 1.7 lbs

Size (body only) is 5.3x3.6x8.4 inches.
in comparison the XA20 - 4.3x3.3x7.2 inches.

So while it has the shape/look of the XA20/30, it is roughly 50% heaver/larger.

No power consumption (watts) listed. Assuming equal power consumption density, I would expect the BP-828 to provide 67% of the run time it provides with the XA20.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Hi, I am keen to order one also, but I have never had a canon before, the main thing I am look for is the option to have a remote and cable plugged in, (not keen on wireless) the remote needs to have Iris/ zoom / focus
Are the world option ?

Rob

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Robert, these camcorders have a LANC / Control-L jack for wired remote zoom, focus and rec.

VariZoom, Manfrotto and other controllers will work just fine with the XF400/405.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Hi I am needing Iris / focus / zoom / rec not fused on the brend, any thoughts

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

My XF305 and XL-H1A allowed me to adjust all those things you listed, including iris. I have the now discontinued Canon ZR-2000 remote. If you can find one, I recommend it. Be careful getting a Manfrotto remote. I got one that is integrated with a pan handle and the attachment screw at the rosette is not compatible with my Sachtler FSB-6 or FSB-4 fluid heads. There was an adapter to make it work but no longer available. The ZR-2000 has a very nice zoom rocker, and you can set it for variable, or choose 1-16 fixed speeds. Since the XF400 is really lacking the ole' XF DNA, it may not give you remote control of the iris, but I'd bet that it does.

Mark

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

These new cameras look exciting for the price point. I own the C200 and the 80D and one thing to be aware of with the touchscreen focusing, at least on the C200, it is nearly unusable on medium to long focal lengths. Why you ask? Look at the screen placement and design on both the C200 and the XF-400/405. Yes, cantilevered out on the left side of the camera.I've tried it with the touchscreen flipped up top in the middle like the C300 MKII clamshell and it only helps mitigate the vibrations from touching the screen minimally. On the 80D, the touchscreen for face detection and racking focus is pretty simple to use, I fly mine on a Zhiyun Crane gimbal. But on the 80D, the touchscreen can be flipped around and tucked into the back of the camera and pushing it to set focus points is pretty intuitive and pressing the screen to select faces or objects doesn't tend to be visible in the footage. But on a gimbal, I am typically using the EF-S 10-18mm STM IS F4.5-5.6 lens, sometimes the 24mm 2.8 STM. With such wide FOV, a lot of the little bumps and nudges get covered up. But use longer focal lengths and things change.

Take the screen on the C200, which is way out in front of the operator on the left of the camera and you are shooting an interview, often with an 80-150mm focal length. Even light touches of the screen become visible in the image at those focal lengths. These new cameras, with a 15X zoom but also with a smaller, lighter weight, will have the same challenge, possibly even worse. The DPAF and face detection is excellent technology, I love it. But actually using it, in the real world, on client shoots, can be frustrating. At least with the C200 and C300 MKII, the faces/focus points can also be selected using the grip joystick. It appears that on these new cameras, it is only selectable using the flip out screen. Not trying to rain on Canon's parade, these cameras look immensely appealing for a lot of uses, I may end up buying one once I pay off the C200 and buy enough CFast cards. The touchscreens though, need another generation of engineering on mounting points, cantilever factors and adjusting the responsiveness to a lighter touch for them to be universally useful at all focal lengths.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with this phrase and therefore have no idea what it means. Maybe it's a Texas vs. Australia thing. Translation?

I bet it does too, but I'll try to find out for sure. Main thing is finding a LANC controller that does exposure adjustment. The ZR2000 you mentioned had that capability.

Have you tried a soft-tip stylus? I can send you a DVi-branded one that has a flashlight and a frickin' *laser.*

Post of the day, Dan, many thanks for sharing your insights.

I love the EF-S 10-18 and the EF-S 24 f/2.8. They are the inexpensive hidden gems in the Canon line.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Sorry can't spell :) or had a few 🍻 Who knows,, , it was ment to say Brand. I was asking if there was a remote that will work on the new XF405 that will allow focus/iris/zoom , I am not fussed on what the brand is.

***also what will the network port to be used for , maybe possible the new NDI ?

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Have you seen this Canon remote? Looks like it will do everything.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...r_rc_v100.html

You didn't mention a budget.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Well that's wonderfull and all , but out of the budget, I was hoping for a 3rd party one, , well hope to find one.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

The third party ones are a little cheaper for what they claim to do, but usually look very non-ergonomical; just a metal box with knobs and buttons. I still think the best solution would be to find a used ZR-2000. Failing that, possibly go with the Manfrotto. Like I said though, it has a weird attach screw size and won't work with my Sachtler head, unless I use the optional rod clamp, that allows you to clamp the Manfrotto to any size pan rod. I got the clamp and didn't like the extra slop that it introduced, even though it was minimal, it would cause my fluid head to tilt a little whenever I started a pan. My next solution is to sacrifice one of my Sachtler pan rods, cut its handle off, and weld the Manfrotto to it. The metal tubing looks too thin-walled to have any threads cut into it for a more elegant solution. Moving on...

It's just under $1,000, but Sony has a new remote, and it has iris control. The RM-30BP. This might be my next luxury item purchase. I don't think you will find anything under $250.

Might want to post a want-to-buy (WTB) message on the forums and see if you get lucky. Also, check B&H Photo's used gear section.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Thank u mark

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

There are two ZR-2000 remotes on eBay. This one for $350 and a new, in-the-box one for $500.
https://www.ebay.com/i/302198514813?rt=nc

B&H has some Manfrotto remotes in their used gear section. I think there was one for $220.

All my Sony and Canon LANC remotes are interchangeable between both brands of camera. My old Panasonic AG-DV30 has a different remote setup and I would be afraid I'd fry something if I tried plugging the Canon/Sony remotes into that camera. Point being, if you buy a Canon remote, then later get a Sony camera, they will likely work well together.

Mark

P.S. Sorry for all the diversion folks, now who has some thoughts to share about the XF400?!

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

So any reports by owners/users of this new camcorder?

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

It would appear not, Don. Oh, and BTW, HAPPY NEW YEAR DON!

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Another month later, and still no user reports?

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Yeah, gotta think.

Do you think it’s case of letting go the video camera format and going with a Stills camera?

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Don't know. I've shot some video with still cameras, and was not comfortable with the ergonomics or the audio. And adding the necessary XLR inputs, etc. would make the ergonomics that much worse.

Its attraction is 4K and the large sensor for more DOF control. Perhaps that is too much of a niche market at this time to draw buyers who would post here.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Agreed. I put this forward as being the decision making process for those who hadn’t tried a Video Cammie before. Have you seen the new SONY RX10 Mk4. Single lens with 24mm to 600mm zoom and of course 4k. And it has 3 rings?

Agreed. I think people are transitioning more towards the Camera and away from the Video Camera.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

And few ratings posted to vendor sites: e.g., B&H. Looks like Canon may have blown it, at least by giving it the XF name when it really is more of an XA series in terms of features, etc. It is appears to not be meeting many users expectations at its price point.

I was considering one, but the lack of user chatter about it is a turn-off. I do not need 4K at this time, and probably will not for a year or two at least.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

I'm really at a loss to understand just what Canon's marketing strategy is? It appears they are being lead by the nose by the bean-counters. Well, if they are then somebody needs to get a grip FAST! - But hey Don, they sell stunning lenses at ALL levels. Maybe Canon should just get out of the video market and concentrate on their core business - Lenses twisting onto their or somebody elses Camera Bodies?

Everybody needs 4k - it's a stunning look and great for post. But yeah - I get yah....

As I said before, if only to reflect/determine a company's strategy, do look at that SONY RX10 Mk4. For £1,800 you get 3 rings; 4k; slomo; tons and tons of user features; massive amounts of focus points; a touch screen allowing for instant shallow DoF activity; 25x Optical . . . the list is enormous - oh yeah: Focal Length (35mm equiv) for Digital Compact Cameras/Lenses24-600mm - eh??!

But here's the thing: It's a Bridge Camera. It's a Point and Shoot and has features that this Canon and the company most be wetting themselves over AND IT IS still a Bridge camera, for the entry level and the Pro user needing that grab-it and run option. Oh yeah, it's also a stills camera - but also does 4k video. Oh, did I say it has 3 Rings?

Why, in all that's innovative and revenue generating, would a purchaser be even contemplating this Canon offering, when there is this SONY? See the list here: https://www.jessops.com/p/sony/cyber...hoCMz8QAvD_BwE

I was once ruefully told by a professional video cameraman: "Canon? Don't they make photocopiers?"

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Same type of question came up when they unleashed the 6D MKII.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...ame-rebel.html

So slow to implement 4K or HFR. And do they even have anything in the action camera area? GoPros have been around for over ten years and now even Polaroid has something out there. Not sure what it is, but it's small, cube-shaped. I gave up trying to reverse engineer their product development decision-making process. Buy the camera that comes closest to ticking all the boxes.

Re: I pre-ordered the XF400 - thoughts?
 

Wasn't that the basis of the Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young offering? "Love the one you're with" But I suppose its a case of Canon to tick the oppositions boxes? Mark, have you checked out that SONY?



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