Canon's new 50Mbps MPEG-2 Full HD (4:2:2) codec - Page 16 at DVinfo.net

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Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


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Old March 7th, 2010, 11:51 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Shaw
I wonder whether there are plans to offer at higher end cam with bigger chips? This definitely looks like the A1 replacement but what about a XLH1 replacement?
I don't believe it's in Canon's grand master plan to produce network/broadcast/eng cams that go far beyond the niche they've carved for event cams like XH-A1, XL-H1. Canon and Fuji have been making most of the lenses for the big network cams from Sony HDCAM/XDCAM/CineAlta and Panasonic Varicam. I think they are satisfied with that, and I don't believe they intend to compete head to head in the market for the cameras, basically because the others have complete lineups and many models, whereas Canon has not even one individual cam in that category. And then there's the matter of all the support equipment that goes along with supplying cams, editing decks, VTRs etc.

But even before getting into all of that, the new Canon cam would have a few more holes to fill before it could be mentioned in the same sentence as the Sony EX series. For example, nothing has been mentioned concerning the nature of the scanning. Will the chips be native progressive? That's important because currently, the Canon chips are scanned interlaced. The XH-A1/XL-H1 shoot really impressive interlaced footage as it is, but when the mode is switched to Canon's proprietary 24F, there is a vertical resolution drop of about 12% compared to its interlaced resolution. But interlaced scanning is already compromised by row summation to minimize interlacing artifacts, thus the vertical resolution for interlaced is about 25% lower when compared to native progressive scanning, even before you consider the additional 12% cut taken by 24F. The bottom line on that, is when comparing Canon 24F to Sony EX 24P, the vertical resolution is currently about 575 lines versus 1000 lines. That's a lot to make up in one leap.

Also, in putting full raster 1920 horizontal photosites versus 1440 in the same 1/3 inch chip, it's going to be a struggle to improve much on the XH-A1/XH-L1's low light performance, which lags the EX by a good margin, again owing to the physics of more light gathering area for the EX.

And what about overcranking, slow motion? Hasn't been mentioned. From what's been announced, it just seems an impossible stretch that in one swoop this potentially great cam from Canon will be a game changer that's going to take all the sales from the EX, especially when you consider the EX line is essentially one link in an unbroken path all the way to the F23/35. Canon doesn't even have this one cam yet. But as speculated, it would appear to compare more or less to the Panasonic HPX300, which is a solid state full raster cam with 1/3 inch chips, which although produces sharply resolved images, hasn't killed the EX1 either for the same reasons, it loses on low light and depth of field to name a few.

Of course it has something to offer, newly packaged values, that will really count for the targeted niche, where it may really excell in some uses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Shealy
I'll be disappointed if it doesn't at least equal the EX cams. even at $4K. If not, I'm not sure many will trade in their older A1's.

I expect Canon will pull something out of their hat for this one, given their recent moves on the 5D, 7D, and now 2Ti. Who saw those coming as quickly as they did?
Solid state workflow will be a big reason why A1/H1 owners will upgrade, and so is the 50 mbps 4:2:2 codec that will be much better for grading and color correction work than HDV. I also have a hunch that Canon will use low cost flash memory, possibly putting pressure on Sony and Panasonic. Sony just recently announced firmware upgrades to the EX series that specifically enable alternative memory types to the up until now, expensive SXS express cards.
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Old March 8th, 2010, 12:49 AM   #227
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Wow i can't wait until NAB, simply to see what Canon does bring out. Ok so we know they are bringing out a new cam with the new codec, but that's all we know. There is so much speculation about this/these new cameras from Canon in this thread, but at the end of the day, until we see an official announcement from Canon showing their hand with this, then speculation is all this will be. If all Canon come up with is a solid state version of the XH A1 using the new codec, i think that will be a great camera, however, if they do actually pull something out of the bag with all those things & a bigger sensor, then regardless of whether it's an EX "killer" or not, i think we will all benefit from it.
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Old March 8th, 2010, 02:51 AM   #228
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Some aspects are known factors and not speculation, such as the chip size (1/3rd inch). There are those who will say that the 1/3rd inch sensor size prohibits it from being a direct competitor to the XDCAM EX series. Instead it looks like it's being positioned against NXCAM and AVCCAM.
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Old March 8th, 2010, 09:06 PM   #229
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I just don't think one is completely better than the other and that's assuming this Canon gets a good price and progressive chips. Without any type of support, the EX1 should get tiring after after hours of usage. I know from experience that even the Z1u can get tiring after a while.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 11:34 AM   #230
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And CCDs will also set it apart from the EXs, and make it favourable to some shooters even with 1/3" chips.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 05:52 PM   #231
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That's part of the reason why I don't consider the chips on either camera being better than the other and that's assuming Canon uses progressive chips. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 06:07 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps View Post
And CCDs will also set it apart from the EXs, and make it favourable to some shooters even with 1/3" chips.
Maybe - assuming they are CCD. Canon haven't confirmed that. (AFAIK)

To others, CMOS may be the better choice - more sensitive (quite apart from 1/3 v 1/2"), and they seem to have more latitude.

My own view is that CMOS chips seem to show their strengths on most shots (especially if it's the only way to get full res chips), whereas CCDs only show their strengths on occasional shots, such as flashguns.
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Old March 10th, 2010, 02:16 AM   #233
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When will this camera(s) be officially announced Canon, at NAB?
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Old March 10th, 2010, 04:11 PM   #234
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My own view is that CMOS chips seem to show their strengths on most shots (especially if it's the only way to get full res chips), whereas CCDs only show their strengths on occasional shots, such as flashguns.
Weird then that the high end is dominated by CCDs then.
I thought Chris had got confirmation that it was CCD?
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Old March 10th, 2010, 05:26 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps
Weird then that the high end is dominated by CCDs then.
Red?

And I think it may be more accurate to say "has been dominated by CCDs". Because of the samaller numbers being sold versus consumer cameras, new technologies often become prevalent in the cheaper, higher volume markets first. The top end has more inertia. The PMW350 may be a sign of where the higher end is going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps
I thought Chris had got confirmation that it was CCD?
Chris?

The reps I spoke to didn't confirm that to me (and yes, I did ask), they didn't confirm or deny ANYTHING except that it would be 50Mbs 422 MPEG2, and it would be solid state.
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Old March 10th, 2010, 08:06 PM   #236
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the question is: when they will announce anything official about this camera? it will be released until when?
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Old March 11th, 2010, 03:33 AM   #237
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No one knows when they will officially announce their new camera. Personally I'm not holding my breath for NAB, I hate waiting with anticipation only to be disappointed.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 11:34 AM   #238
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CCD *not* confirmed. Expect it to be announced and shown at NAB.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 12:06 PM   #239
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I see that the news section only has seven threads with comments in March, and two are locked. The weeks before NAB are like a video news black hole.

We should definitely know more about the camera at NAB. And, come April, the news section should bounce back to life. :)
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Old March 12th, 2010, 02:57 AM   #240
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tick . . tock . . tick . .tock . . .

It all sounds rather yummy indeed; saw the mock-up at BVE London Earls Court last month and visited my fav London store 2 days ago. The sales guy there couldn't have had his arm twisted at all! - Soooo tight lipped, any tighter and his chin would have touched his brow!

tick . . tock . . tick . .tock . . .

Grazie
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