Press Release: Canon's New XF305 and XF300 Professional HD Camcorder - Page 10 at DVinfo.net

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Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


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Old April 9th, 2010, 07:34 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Kevin Martorana View Post
Canon has done that...it seems...there are quite a few different camcorders in their line...in the 'couple of thousand' range. Probably more than any other company.
I don't agree. With the current lineup and with tape capture in the Autumn of its life, there is a huge gap in the Canon lineup. Canon has is only 1 consumer tape camera with the HV40 and the current professional line A1/G1/H1 that use tapes. Now there will be a huge jump from the consumer to professional lines. Canon’s flagship consumer camera lists at $1399 and entry into this new line is $6700. If past price drops hold true they could end up at $5999 and $7199 range but this is still almost a $5000 gap.

With the release of the new Canon with SDI within $1200 of the G1S, sales of that camera will be VERY slow and I cannot see any further production. They might sell a few with a very heavy discount but it is gone. Not sure how long the A1S will be in production but with the A1S demise there will be a huge price gap in the Canon line.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 07:43 AM   #137
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Well I think that the HDV line will be out for a while longer to fill those holes.

Next camera release from them, I assume, will be the XL versions of these XF cams, which will most likely be even highed priced than the XF cams.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 08:12 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Dom Stevenson View Post
Good point Steve, but am i not right in thinking that the images from the HV20 for example, are identical to the XH range of cameras as far as codec's go?
Absolutely right -- both are HDV. And the image from the HV series camcorders, under the right lighting conditions, can come close to matching that of the XH series.

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Originally Posted by David Chilson View Post
Not sure how long the A1S will be in production but with the A1S demise there will be a huge price gap in the Canon line.
That's right, and frankly I'd like to see something the same size and price of the GL2 in the AVCHD format, to replace the XH series HDV models when they're gone. Without the XH A1S or XL H1A, they'll have a big hole in between the HF S21 at $1400 and the XF300 at $6700 (and no, the D-SLRs don't count here).

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Originally Posted by Michael Galvan View Post
Well I think that the HDV line will be out for a while longer to fill those holes.
Agreed...

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Originally Posted by Michael Galvan View Post
Next camera release from them, I assume, will be the XL versions of these XF cams, which will most likely be even highed priced than the XF cams.
And agreed.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 08:43 AM   #139
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Chris,
have you had a chance to see what the resulting image is with this new camera? INMHO I think it would be a shame if it doesn't exceed the look of what comes from their 5DMarkII. I don't think that we should have to spend $8K for a video camera that isn't better than a still camera.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 08:58 AM   #140
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I haven't seen it yet, but I will on Monday morning at NAB. My contact at Canon USA told me there will be ten working samples at the show (I assume these are going to be operational market test units, since the production models aren't shipping until June). From what I understand about their NAB booth layout, Canon will have several of them tethered to a hands-on counter for touch & try, plus a couple more in a shooting gallery. Usually they'll have HD monitors showing pre-recorded sample video on a playback loop, as well as the live output, so there will be plenty of opportunities to gauge the image output quality.

Considering that the D-SLR video is delivered only via some pretty intense line skipping and tends to suffer from some serious issues, I think it's a cinch that the XF series video will meet or exceed that of the D-SLRs in terms of image quality. I'm not hammering on the D-SLR's, after all I own three of them (5D Mk. II, 7D and T2i), but let's face it, we're talking about a large sensor that skips lines and bins pixels to get HD, vs. a new three-chip sensor block that was built from the ground up for nothing but HD. I think it's safe to assume that it'll be very good quality, but we'll all find out for sure on Monday.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 09:06 AM   #141
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Chris,
MUCH APPRECIATED!! Trust me, I have been a CANON loyalist and all of my video gear is Canon. I was on the verge of considering jumping ship to something else (RED), but now i'm happy again as they FINALLY included VFR on these cameras! Don't know what took them so long, but we finally have it. Wouldn't it be great if they could get it up to 120fps without having to get a RED camera? I know there are other options out there, but i tend to stick with one. Keep up the good work!
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Old April 9th, 2010, 12:22 PM   #142
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Chris, I assume you'll already find a way to do so, but could you please evaluate the high gain and low light characteristics of the camcorder on monday? It'd be much appreciated :).
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Old April 9th, 2010, 12:45 PM   #143
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Hi Randy, we'll be limited to the lighting on the show floor, which can be harsh sometimes depending on certain factors, but I'll see what we can do.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 02:57 PM   #144
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Chris will likely be operating in an environment resembling a garage forecourt, with strip lights etc. No doubt a reviewer will be given a camera to take it through its paces in the near future, but its a bit much to expect Chris - or anyone else - to make an assessment of a camera's low light capabilities at a trade show.

I'm hoping for a fast, wide lens myself, but i think we'll have to wait a little longer to see what this camera can do. There should be an EX1r side by side comparison on vimeo within a month or so, and then we'll have a better idea of how the new Canon stands up to the competition.

I have high hopes, but let's wait and see.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 04:15 PM   #145
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Having never been to NAB, I respectfully disagree with you Dom. I'm not asking for a full blown assessment of the low light of the camera, I'm asking for an impression. I'm chomping at the bits myself to discover how good this camera is in low light so any type of information in that regard is welcomed by me. Maybe those who want lux values and charts may not care too much for it, but I'm happy for any and all info.

At the risk of sounding too ninja-esque, I would say find a low lit spot in the booth somewhere and open up the camera's iris. Perhaps a corner that isn't lit? Under a table skirt maybe? I remember seeing pictures of a canon booth a few shows ago that was lit dramatically (ie. not fully lit) and had LCD screens on the top of the trestles. There was quite a bit of spots in that booth that you could point the camera at to see how it was rendering the image. Dark enough to see how bad noise was if the camera gained up.

Now if the whole entire NAB floor is blasted with light and opening up the camera's iris would result in nothing but blown out footage, then I take it back.

Cheers.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 05:20 PM   #146
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Randy

I've never been to NAB either and am basing my thoughts on the last 2 Canon stands at UK trade shows. On both occasions the cameras were tethered, so the idea of finding a dimly lit spot was not very practical. I'm trying to picture Chris lying under a table with a tethered camera but i'm not sure that would be very productive. We really want to see how the camera stands up alongside the competition, and while i'm sure NAB has a much wider range of gear than the London shows, i doubt there will be an EX1 under the table on the Canon stand.

Then again, perhaps the cameras at NAB are not tethered at all. I don't think they used to be in London until someone walked out of Earl's Court with a very expensive broadcast camera a couple of years ago.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 05:49 PM   #147
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As in most cases, the announced price are much more than the actual selling price. A new example would be the HPX370 in which B&H have set it to $9,200. Another example would be the NX5 which ends up selling for $4,000. Perhaps we'll see something like $5,000 to $5,500 for the low model. I think companies do that just to read people's reactions.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 05:50 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Randy Panado View Post
At the risk of sounding too ninja-esque, I would say find a low lit spot in the booth somewhere and open up the camera's iris. Perhaps a corner that isn't lit? Under a table skirt maybe?
There's a much easier way. Could Chris take along some pretty hefty NDs and put those on the front, hefty enough to mean that not only does the camera have to be wide open, but also that a decent amount of gain has to be used. Then let's see the results on a representative, normal, general scene.

Ideally, the same filtration could then be put on competing cameras (the EX being the one of most interest) and we'll see how they compare.

The ND should be strong enough that so much gain is needed that the pictures won't look anywhere near good - that's not the point, it's the differences camera to camera that are relevant.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 07:55 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Dom Stevenson View Post
Randy

I've never been to NAB either and am basing my thoughts on the last 2 Canon stands at UK trade shows. On both occasions the cameras were tethered, so the idea of finding a dimly lit spot was not very practical. I'm trying to picture Chris lying under a table with a tethered camera but i'm not sure that would be very productive. We really want to see how the camera stands up alongside the competition, and while i'm sure NAB has a much wider range of gear than the London shows, i doubt there will be an EX1 under the table on the Canon stand.

Then again, perhaps the cameras at NAB are not tethered at all. I don't think they used to be in London until someone walked out of Earl's Court with a very expensive broadcast camera a couple of years ago.
You missed my point. I'm all for seeing how it stands up against the EX1. I'm also looking for ANY inkling to how the low light is on the camera, unscientific as the test may be.... So even though there's not much value for some in having the camera pointed at a dark corner wide open, I'm happy to hear ANY news in regards to how it looks. Of course, I'm sure Canon will have some sort of footage up soon and all this will have been for naught.

David - Good suggestion. I was actually going to ask for him to turn on all the ND filters, stop down, then gain up but felt that was a bit counter intuitive to see how the low light is. However, it would show what kind of noise characteristics the gain has. The HMC150, in my opinion, has very "clean" looking gain at 12DB. The XHA1 looks like throwup at 12DB. lol Your suggestion of bringing along NDs would be interesting. Hopefully Mr. Hurd is game?
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Old April 9th, 2010, 07:59 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Heath View Post
Could Chris take along some pretty hefty NDs and put those on the front...
It's a great idea, but I don't have any 82mm filters and I'm heading to the airport in 36 hours.

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I'm trying to picture Chris lying under a table...
It's definitely been known to happen, but usually not until much, much later into the evening.

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Then again, perhaps the cameras at NAB are not tethered at all.
In Las Vegas, everything is tied down... or it's gone. The wire ties spool out about a meter at the most, so you can't go very far with them. Canon's booth will have counter tops, not tables. I'll try to dig up some pics from previous shows.
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