Ghosting on the XF300 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 15th, 2010, 01:58 PM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bermuda
Posts: 6
Ghosting on the XF300

I've just been doing some tests on the XF300 on 30p and 24p and I'm getting some ghosting. You know,movements of hands and things like that that leave that trailing effect.

What am I doing wrong? What should I be doing? Is it my shutter speed?
Milton Raposo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 02:03 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UT
Posts: 945
My first guess would be to turn off noise reduction. That's probably the culprit.
Barlow Elton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 02:26 PM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,130
Not like I'm getting with the Panasonic HPX371 is it ? HPX371 Noise Issue?
Steve Phillipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 03:18 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 229
Milton,

Can we see a clip or couple of stills? I have not noticed anything on my clips.

Barlow, there are advantages to leaving NR on auto, especially at higher gain settings (according to Alan Robert's report).
__________________
Nick Wilcox-Brown
Nick Wilcox-Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 03:26 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 643
Are you talking about high shutter stuttering or actual ghosting?
Randy Panado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2010, 04:43 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 292
cant tell you much without a screencap
Tom Bostick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2010, 11:00 AM   #7
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bermuda
Posts: 6
i don't have a clip to hand right now but it's that effect you get when the clip is interlaced. let's say it's a clip of someone waving their arms. the arms leave a very slight trail.

i will try to post a clip later today.
Milton Raposo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2010, 11:03 AM   #8
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bermuda
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Panado View Post
Are you talking about high shutter stuttering or actual ghosting?


ghosting. but it's not massive but just enough to be noticeable.
Milton Raposo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2010, 06:56 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Walworth, NY
Posts: 291
Mitch,

I get the same thing on my XHA1s when I shoot in 24p with people moving their hands. Here is a link to a video where it happens. I think it may be the back and forth motion.

__________________
Dave Chilson
www.loc.org
David Chilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2010, 10:47 AM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Chilson View Post
I get the same thing on my XHA1s when I shoot in 24p with people moving their hands. Here is a link to a video where it happens. I think it may be the back and forth motion.
This looks like junk frames from footage that has not been properly reverse-telecined. I used to see this with footage from my Canon HV20 or Panasonic DVX100B before I learned how to properly reverse-telecine my footage.

24P footage should just look blurred with fast motion, there should never be a double or ghost image.
Guy McLoughlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2010, 01:17 PM   #11
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bermuda
Posts: 6
Finally got some footage up. Look at the first artist, at the start of his presentation. He waves his hands a bit and leaving that trailing effect.

Milton Raposo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2010, 01:51 PM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 229
Try taking a still image in low light at 1/48 or 1/24 second and then wave your arm around. The result WILL be blur.

To freeze a moving object, one has to use a shutter speed of 1/250 or 1/500th minimum ie 10x the speed you are using to shoot smooth video.

This is not a camera issue, it is physics.

Nick.
__________________
Nick Wilcox-Brown
Nick Wilcox-Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2010, 02:07 PM   #13
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton Raposo View Post
Finally got some footage up. Look at the first artist, at the start of his presentation. He waves his hands a bit and leaving that trailing effect.

The Bermuda National Gallery Biennial 2010 on Vimeo
Milton,

Are using some type of low light or cinema mode that lowers the shutter speed? It looks to me, FWIW, like 24P w/ a 24fps shutter. Normally you'd use a 48fps shutter.
__________________
Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0
Peter Moretti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2010, 02:55 PM   #14
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 2,483
I agree with Nick and Peter, the wrong shutter speed has been used. That's all that's going on.

Milton, why don't you use Canon's XF Utility software to examine one of the offending clips and let us know what the shutter speed actually was. This is a perfect example of how metadata can be helpful -- and the XF305/300 saves TONS of it.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2010, 03:29 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton Raposo View Post
I've just been doing some tests on the XF300 on 30p and 24p and I'm getting some ghosting.
This looks like normal motion blur from using a slow shutter speed. Based upon your sample, I would be far more worried about the sound quality you are recording. ( i.e. The sound is weak, has a limited tonal range, lots of LAV mic rustling sounds )
Guy McLoughlin is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:06 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network