Please canon release the xf plug in for free - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 28th, 2010, 10:10 AM   #16
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,384
Wow, maybe I'm missing the boat on some features but I don't use the XF utility. My workflow seems much simpler....

1) shoot video
2) dump cards to my Nexto 2700
3) dump Nexto to customer/project folders on my FCP system which nightly goes to my time machine
4) use L&T to transcode to prores which live on a different drive from project (wipe Nexto and cards for next shoot)
5) edit and send final to client
6) dump prores files and backup client folder which has raw camera folders and project files to my raid system

I used the same system when I had my hmc150 and it's caused no issues even with some clients needing to be revisited months later.

I seem to be in a pool of production people who all use FCP and the utility is a non-issue with all of us.

I do 1-3 shoots a week on average and can't imagine what the utility would add (other than the headaches mentioned)

Just because the included utility isnt great certainly wouldn't make me pass up a camera, especially the 300/305 which is an amazing piece.
__________________
A7RII, C100, 1Dx, 5Dmk3, 70D, Kessler goodies, Adobe, Pro Tools and more!

Last edited by Robert Turchick; November 28th, 2010 at 10:42 AM.
Robert Turchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2010, 12:07 PM   #17
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 3,445
Where is the metadata hiding away that it doesn't get copied over? If the XF Utility requires the full file structure on the Compact Flash card isn't the simple answer just to make a disk image of the card using Disk Utility? Then the .DMG file can be copied & duplicated to your hearts content for backup purposes.
Nigel Barker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2010, 02:03 PM   #18
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 2,481
Nigel,
No. XF Utiitly won't be able to see the clips in the example you describe. There is no way to navigate into the contents of a hard drive and find the clips manually. If the clips are not located in a folder called CONTENTS, that is located in the root directly of the drive/card/disc, then XF Utility will never see them. If you don't believe me, try it yourself. If you don't have the means to try it yourself, then please take my word for it.

Robert,
If your workflow works for you , that's great. Keep doing exactly what you're doing. But it does not work for those people who (like myself) who prefer to keep a copy of their original MXF files -- for the reasons I have already explained in previous posts. As I have already said, if all you care about archiving is the converted MOV copy of the clps, then you don't need XF Utility at all.

XF Utility does not work like it should. Period. Canon has acknowledged to me privately that they have a problem and that they intend to fix it sometime in the next few months.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

Last edited by Doug Jensen; November 28th, 2010 at 04:53 PM. Reason: fix typos
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2010, 01:47 AM   #19
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Munich / Hohenschäftlarn, Germany
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
QUOTE: . . . the XF utility "randomly changes file numbers"

I don't know where you heard that, but I don't want anyone thinking that is attributable to me.
XF Utility has many problem but I am not aware of that one.
Hi together,

in fact, XF Utility has changed for several times the original numbers of the CF-Card after copying files to my hard-Disk. I tried it again and again, it was always the same mistake.

By the way: we shot around 30 hours for a documentary. I really love the pictures of this small 1/3"-camera but the workflow is terrible. Why does Canon hide the files behind long "trees", why is it not possible to view clips that not have been copied with XF Utility? And last but not least: Why is it not possible to view clips that have been stored on location with my macbook later on in the editing room with my power mac (which also has XF-Utility installed)?
Reinhard Kungel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2010, 02:24 AM   #20
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 3,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
Nigel,
No. XF Utiitly won't be able to see the clips in the example you describe. There is no way to navigate into the contents of a hard drive and find the clips manually. If the clips are not located in a folder called CONTENTS, that is located in the root directly of the drive/card/disc, then XF Utility will never see them. If you don't believe me, try it yourself. If you don't have the means to try it yourself, then please take my word for it.
Doug, I will have to take you word for it for as per the subject of this thread as I don't (yet) own an XF300 I do not have the utility or any cards to test.

I just find it difficult to understand in OS X terms why the XF utility wouldn't work with a disk image of the card. In every other case that I have come across in OS X you can clone a disk to an image & then mount that image & use it as though it were the original disk. OS X doesn't see any difference. If there is something weird about the XF utility that it demands a real Compact Flash card then I suppose that one answer is to clone the archived disk image back to a card if you need to access it again with the XF Utility. Unless the XF Utility requires that the cards are still in the camera? If they can be read from a card reader then I cannot see why creating a .DMG file from the disk wouldn't work just the same. Has anyone tried this?
Nigel Barker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2010, 08:06 AM   #21
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard Kungel View Post
Why does Canon hide the files behind long "trees"
Huh? They're using a standard MXF file structure. Have you ever seen the contents of a Panasonic P2 card? Or AVCHD? This is *file based* recording. There's nothing strange about Canon's implementation of MXF relative to other manufacturers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard Kungel View Post
why is it not possible to view clips that not have been copied with XF Utility?
I copy and view XF clips all the time and I don't have XF Utility. I use Sony's excellent XDCAM Viewer (which is free). However, I am using a PC for this purpose, so I can't speak for the Mac experience. I will say however that I firmly believe that working videographers should seriously consider being cross-platform, both Mac and PC.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2010, 07:19 PM   #22
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Barker View Post
If they can be read from a card reader then I cannot see why creating a .DMG file from the disk wouldn't work just the same. Has anyone tried this?
Hi Nigel - you are of course right. I came across and Canon XF Card for the first time the other day that wouldn't load when copied to disk - and making a Disk Image was the first thing I tried, and it worked absolutely fine.

However, it is a slow process - that may be because of the card reader I was using though. I was making a Disk Image remains in my opinion the most logical solution for troubleshooting any card related problems on an OSX system.
__________________
www.afterglow.co.nz
Craig Parkes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2010, 12:51 AM   #23
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Novosibirsk, Russia
Posts: 46
Canon release XF Utility 1.1 Updater: Canon U.S.A. : Consumer & Home Office : XF300
Ivan Pin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2010, 02:22 AM   #24
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 3,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Parkes View Post
Hi Nigel - you are of course right. I came across and Canon XF Card for the first time the other day that wouldn't load when copied to disk - and making a Disk Image was the first thing I tried, and it worked absolutely fine.

However, it is a slow process - that may be because of the card reader I was using though. I was making a Disk Image remains in my opinion the most logical solution for troubleshooting any card related problems on an OSX system.
Craig, thank you for confirming that OS X still works in the way that it always has done with regard to disk images. As I said in my earlier post reading the card & creating a .DMG disk image file is the obvious answer for offloading cards in the filed & backup generally.

A FW800 Compact Flash reader is very much faster than a USB one when reading the cards.
Nigel Barker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2010, 08:28 AM   #25
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 2,481
I disagree that creating disc images is a viable workaround to the problem. It takes too long, it involves too many extra steps, and is generally a big hassle. I have other workarounds that are already easier than that.

Fortunately, we don't need to debate it anymore because the new XF Utility v1.1.0 update solves the problem and makes the program operate like it should have in the first place. I've tried the update patch and I'm happy to report that it solves the all the issues i didn't like. It may not address other people's complaints, but I'm satisfied.

Ivan, thanks for bringing the update to our attention. I've been in contact with Canon several times via email and telephone over the last few months about this problem and was expecting them to let me know when the update was available. So far, not a word from them, which actually does not surprise me all that much.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2010, 09:12 AM   #26
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 899
Canon XF files on PC with Vegas

In case anyone is interested from a PC point of view the XF mxf files come straight into Sony Vegas with all metadata intact where they can be edited natively quickly and smoothly. No time wasting transcoding required. Can be archived off in their native form with all metadata intact. As Chris H points out Sony's XDCam viewer works fine with them. I have no issues with XF files at all.

With well over 400 TV shows edited on Vegas now using XDCam mxf files I am finding it to be the most stable and user friendly mxf editor out there. Great to see Canon now using the same 422 50-mbit codec like the big XDCams. Just wish the EX range did the same. Have never used the Canon utility and can't see any reason why I would so can't comment on it.

As an aside Vegas with the Blackmagic Decklink Extreme HD card can capture realtime to 50-mbit 422 mxf on the fly from any HD-SDI source. A 100% mxf workflow makes for a very simple fast eficient workflow when pushing out weekly shows with deadlines to meet.
Christopher Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2010, 09:18 AM   #27
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES
Posts: 1,215
Good to hear that Christopher, since I am contemplating the XF105 for use with Vegas Pro 10...
Robin Davies-Rollinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2010, 10:47 AM   #28
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Pin View Post
Canon release XF Utility 1.1 Updater: Canon U.S.A. : Consumer & Home Office : XF300
Hi, just returning to this thread after a few days away filming.

1. Anyone care to comment from direct experience on what this new version of the XF Utility brings to this discussion?
2. Also, would I be able to use Sony's XDCAM Clip Viewer (Browser?) to view XF 100/105 clips easily on my Mac Pro and MBP? (see Chris H's post earlier about viewing XF300/305 clips with the Sony XDCAM Clip Viewer, all working well on PCs - so at least I know I should be OK with Vegas on my 64-Bit i7 Windows 7 box)....but what about Macs?

Thank you in advance.
__________________
Andy K Wilkinson - http://www.shootingimage.co.uk
Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production
Andy Wilkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2010, 11:08 AM   #29
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 2,481
Andy,

To answer your questions:

1) See my post #25 above. I am happy with the latest update to XF Utility.

2) No. Maybe on a PC, but not on Mac. I don't see any way you can use any of Sony's three browser programs to easily view native XF files without drilling all the way down into the contents of the card to look at only one clip at a time. Just like XDCAM, every clip is buried within it's own folder, and the Sony software doesn't know how to grab all the clips on an XF card and display them all at once like can be done with SxS cards. Why bother anyway even if you could? Now that XF Utility has been fixed there's nothing to be gained by using the Sony software. XF Utility provides tons of features for XF clips that won't be available if you use Sony's software. Use Sony for Sony and Canon for Canon.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2010, 11:09 AM   #30
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Victoria,BC
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Pin View Post
Canon release XF Utility 1.1 Updater: Canon U.S.A. : Consumer & Home Office : XF300

I have downloaded this and continue to open in OS 10 and it keeps me on a wild goose chase. It does not give me any installer, but just keeps archiving and unarchiving itself.
__________________
Bill Weaver
Across Borders Media / Media that Matters
Bill Weaver is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:42 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network