Anyone using 720 60p? at DVinfo.net

Bill Weaver · April 10th, 2011, 11:34 PM

I'm finding my self liking the idea of 60p, and considering trading off a little bit of resolution for a smoother look.

Anybody else thinking this way, or have any wisdom to impart?

Tim Polster · April 11th, 2011, 09:00 AM

Bill, it depends upon your subject matter. If you watch a live sporting event there is a good chance 720p60 is being shot and I do not think you have any image concerns watching an NFL football broadcast. Imho, 1080p can be a slight step up from 720p but 1080p is limited to 24p or 30p. If you need smooth motion it is 1080i or 720p60 which in my mind are visually not that far apart when viewed on an HD television.

The only way for you to know is to take your camera, shoot identical scenes in different recording formats, put all of these scenes into your editor, export DVD and Blu-ray files, line up all of these files on one DVD or Blu-ray disc and watch them back to back. Then you will see with your own eyes and you can make a decision based upon firsthand knowledge.

FWIW, I always shoot in 720p60. I think it is a very useful format that can be changed in post to 30 or 24p if needed.

Bill Weaver · April 12th, 2011, 08:48 AM

I'm tempted because of the moire and shimmering I'm finding on 30P, and 30i. To solve that with these formats, the word is to take sharpness down to -7.

in 60p I can leave sharpness at 0. So, in the end, when you look at the image, There's doesn't seem to be a lot of diff.

Thanks for the thoughts. Love to hear more.

Steve Maller · April 12th, 2011, 10:40 AM

It depends on your delivery medium. If you're making SD DVDs, you'll have to downshift the frame rate in post to 23.976, so you can end up losing quality. If you're delivering online, it depends on your target frame rate. But one of the wonderful features of 60P is to be able to "conform" that footage to 24P without resampling at all, resulting in beautiful slow-motion effects that maximize the quality of the camera's files.

Bill Weaver · April 12th, 2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Maller

It depends on your delivery medium. If you're making SD DVDs, you'll have to downshift the frame rate in post to 23.976, so you can end up losing quality. If you're delivering online, it depends on your target frame rate. But one of the wonderful features of 60P is to be able to "conform" that footage to 24P without resampling at all, resulting in beautiful slow-motion effects that maximize the quality of the camera's files.

So there is a disadvantage if you're wanting to use 60p to deliver 24p on SD DVD? While at same time it conforms well to 24p? These seem to conflict. I know it's my own confusion, not your explanation. Can you elaborate?

Mark Williams · April 12th, 2011, 02:11 PM

720 60p shot for DVD looks fantastic on SD DVD. My workflow in Edius is project settings are 1280x720 29.97p over 59.94p. For slow-mo conform desired clip to 29.97. When project is complete export project as Edius HQ fine .avi. Then encode with TMPG4 mpeg2 using 29.97 template and bring into DVDlab Pro for authoring. Final DVD looks much better IMO than footage shot at 1080i or 1080 30p. Something to do with resizing and 720p being closer to the final output size. Graphics also stay sharp in the resizing.

Steve Maller · April 13th, 2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Weaver

So there is a disadvantage if you're wanting to use 60p to deliver 24p on SD DVD? While at same time it conforms well to 24p? These seem to conflict. I know it's my own confusion, not your explanation. Can you elaborate?

Converting has to re-interpret the frames and retain the timing of the clip. This can mean blending frame data to make a single frame out of every 2 1/2 frames. It can work well with certain kinds of footage and a very good editing system. But it can also wreck your footage in some cases.

Conforming simply tells the editing software that the original frames were actually 24P and not 60P, meaning that the clip actually plays at 1/2.5 the original speed. No data actually changes in the frames themselves.

Josh Dahlberg · April 13th, 2011, 08:59 PM

I've been shooting 720 a lot lately, because a) as Mark points out it works well for DVD/web output [the majority of my work] and b) with the XF you gain a stop in sensitivity, great for shooting indoors

Tim Polster · April 13th, 2011, 09:23 PM

It is odd if you are gaining light sensitivity by shooting in 720p compared to 1080. Are you sure the shutter is staying constant between the two resolutions? Could you verify this as an extra stop would be a pretty large difference.

Josh Dahlberg · April 13th, 2011, 09:33 PM

Hi Tim,

I can confirm it's absolutely true when switching from 1080 25p to 720 25p with a consistent shutter (I almost always shoot 1/50th) - this is the main reason I choose 720 when shooting indoors for DVD/web output.

There's more on it here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xf...vity-720p.html

Tim Polster · April 14th, 2011, 03:25 PM

Thanks for the follow up. So the XF series seems to not be so light challenged at 720p. I would like to see a comparison of the XF series and the EX-1 in 720p to see how they measure up.

April 10th, 2011, 11:34 PM	#1
Bill Weaver Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Victoria,BC Posts: 124	Anyone using 720 60p? I'm finding my self liking the idea of 60p, and considering trading off a little bit of resolution for a smoother look. Anybody else thinking this way, or have any wisdom to impart? __________________ Bill Weaver Across Borders Media / Media that Matters

April 11th, 2011, 09:00 AM	#2
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: Anyone using 720 60p? Bill, it depends upon your subject matter. If you watch a live sporting event there is a good chance 720p60 is being shot and I do not think you have any image concerns watching an NFL football broadcast. Imho, 1080p can be a slight step up from 720p but 1080p is limited to 24p or 30p. If you need smooth motion it is 1080i or 720p60 which in my mind are visually not that far apart when viewed on an HD television. The only way for you to know is to take your camera, shoot identical scenes in different recording formats, put all of these scenes into your editor, export DVD and Blu-ray files, line up all of these files on one DVD or Blu-ray disc and watch them back to back. Then you will see with your own eyes and you can make a decision based upon firsthand knowledge. FWIW, I always shoot in 720p60. I think it is a very useful format that can be changed in post to 30 or 24p if needed.

April 12th, 2011, 08:48 AM	#3
Bill Weaver Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Victoria,BC Posts: 124	Re: Anyone using 720 60p? I'm tempted because of the moire and shimmering I'm finding on 30P, and 30i. To solve that with these formats, the word is to take sharpness down to -7. in 60p I can leave sharpness at 0. So, in the end, when you look at the image, There's doesn't seem to be a lot of diff. Thanks for the thoughts. Love to hear more. __________________ Bill Weaver Across Borders Media / Media that Matters

April 12th, 2011, 10:40 AM	#4
Steve Maller Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Burlingame, CA USA Posts: 285	Re: Anyone using 720 60p? It depends on your delivery medium. If you're making SD DVDs, you'll have to downshift the frame rate in post to 23.976, so you can end up losing quality. If you're delivering online, it depends on your target frame rate. But one of the wonderful features of 60P is to be able to "conform" that footage to 24P without resampling at all, resulting in beautiful slow-motion effects that maximize the quality of the camera's files. __________________ me@facebook: http://facebook.com/stevemallerphotography

April 12th, 2011, 02:11 PM	#6
Mark Williams Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep South, U.S. Posts: 1,526	Re: Anyone using 720 60p? 720 60p shot for DVD looks fantastic on SD DVD. My workflow in Edius is project settings are 1280x720 29.97p over 59.94p. For slow-mo conform desired clip to 29.97. When project is complete export project as Edius HQ fine .avi. Then encode with TMPG4 mpeg2 using 29.97 template and bring into DVDlab Pro for authoring. Final DVD looks much better IMO than footage shot at 1080i or 1080 30p. Something to do with resizing and 720p being closer to the final output size. Graphics also stay sharp in the resizing. __________________ Mark videos: http://vimeo.com/channels/3523 Stock: http://www.pond5.com/artist/mark29

April 13th, 2011, 08:59 PM	#8
Josh Dahlberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 513	Re: Anyone using 720 60p? I've been shooting 720 a lot lately, because a) as Mark points out it works well for DVD/web output [the majority of my work] and b) with the XF you gain a stop in sensitivity, great for shooting indoors

April 13th, 2011, 09:23 PM	#9
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: Anyone using 720 60p? It is odd if you are gaining light sensitivity by shooting in 720p compared to 1080. Are you sure the shutter is staying constant between the two resolutions? Could you verify this as an extra stop would be a pretty large difference.

April 13th, 2011, 09:33 PM	#10
Josh Dahlberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 513	Re: Anyone using 720 60p? Hi Tim, I can confirm it's absolutely true when switching from 1080 25p to 720 25p with a consistent shutter (I almost always shoot 1/50th) - this is the main reason I choose 720 when shooting indoors for DVD/web output. There's more on it here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xf...vity-720p.html

April 14th, 2011, 03:25 PM	#11
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: Anyone using 720 60p? Thanks for the follow up. So the XF series seems to not be so light challenged at 720p. I would like to see a comparison of the XF series and the EX-1 in 720p to see how they measure up.