XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this? at DVinfo.net

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Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


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Old May 12th, 2011, 11:28 AM   #1
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XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

Any owners of the XF100 or XF105 care to chime in about rolling shutter problems, if any?

I'm going to be shooting something over a few months that will have quite a bit of moving footage: think bicyclists, sometimes shot from a static position, sometimes from a moving vehicle. No, I'm not going to whip pan intentionally or anything like that, but there's bound to be some panning and some fast horizontal tracking shots -- it's just the nature of the subject matter, I'm afraid.

As an alternative I'm contemplating getting an HPX170 with its three CCDs. I'm a bit hesitant to start something from the get-go with anything less than 1080p capability but it's a good camera and the picture is solid under moving conditions.

I've researched pros and cons and am aware on paper of the cost and handling differences between these two cameras. I'm specifically seeking input with regard to this one issue. It's tough to get my hands on an XF100 to test it myself....
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Old May 12th, 2011, 10:31 PM   #2
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

In another forum I belong to the g10's have some distortion "Jello" issues with walking and panning in dynamic OIS mode, I had very little if any distortion issues with my xa10 I did a walking test with it and some say they could see it but I couldnt tell much. These issues seem to have been with the lens at it's widest and in dynamic mode mostly. I have yet to get my xf100 to test and see if if does it to.

My walkig test
My chasing son test
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Old May 12th, 2011, 11:13 PM   #3
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

There is a little bit of it, nothing major, and nothing like a 5d II. I haven't specifically tested for it. A few weeks ago I shot nearby white pelicans in flight at full telephoto and handheld. I was panning the camera rapidly from left to right. The shot was very smooth and almost looked like the camera had been on a tripod. The OIS is quite good.

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Old May 13th, 2011, 12:19 AM   #4
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Reddy View Post
There is a little bit of it, nothing major, and nothing like a 5d II. I haven't specifically tested for it. A few weeks ago I shot nearby white pelicans in flight at full telephoto and handheld. I was panning the camera rapidly from left to right. The shot was very smooth and almost looked like the camera had been on a tripod. The OIS is quite good.
I measured rolling shutter using the method in the instructions for Deshaker, and got about 30%. This compares to the 5DII which is 70-75%. So yes, it is much better.

I also spent some time working with the new Warp Stabalizer program in AE 5.5 and it handles rolling shutter with the XF100 very well. HOWEVER it is very slow for full stabilization and seems to be most useful only for short clips, so I would not expect to rely on it for a full video.

My experience is that I can live with the rolling shutter with the XF100; but then again I'm coming from a 5DII. A CCD camera would do better, but I really would not want to give up the image quality of the XF100.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 09:06 AM   #5
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

Thanks Charles. I didn't know you could actually measure rolling shutter effects with Deshaker. I knew you could correct for them. It's nice to have confirmation about the scale of the issue. The XF100 has so many things going for it that a few individual issues are not enough to tarnish my excitement about using it.

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Old May 13th, 2011, 10:23 AM   #6
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

Thanks for the replies. Any video samples would be much appreciated. I'm in New York -- urban density, tall buildings, vertical lines. Hence my particular concern about rolling shutter.
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Old May 14th, 2011, 07:19 PM   #7
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

The DYNAMIC setting tends to "wobble" on its own to stabilize the picture. Almost like on a small boat in mildly rough seas.

I am using the standard setting. The real test is panning fast. Try to pan moving vehicles and post your findings. I think you will be surprised.
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Old May 14th, 2011, 07:26 PM   #8
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

I don't like the dynamic ois setting either, it definitely has a very noticeable, unnatural, annoying wobble to it.
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Old May 14th, 2011, 08:39 PM   #9
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

So I guess jello wobble effect in dynamic OIS is in the g10, some of the clips I've seen make ya sick, and very little effect if any in the xa10. Anyone have any walking or other clips that show effect in the xf100. Thanks
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Old May 15th, 2011, 10:47 AM   #10
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

Below is a DYNAMIC stabilizer test I did with my HF S11 Canon camera. Notice the wobble at times coupled with some artifacting which is magnified via YOU TUBE compression. To view in HD, let the video download. HD setting is in the lower right corner.


YouTube - CANON HF S 11 DYNAMIC STABILIZER TEST
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Old May 15th, 2011, 12:46 PM   #11
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

Lou I'll try to watch it on my laptop when I go to work my Internet where I live is town wide wireless and it's not working right now, no cable or fios available. LOL so when playing on my iPhone it looks bad from the start. I have watched a ton of canon g10 jello effect vids and my. Xa10 only had a small effect when I did a fast walking test. I will do another walking test with the xf100 when I get it just waiting for BH to refund the xa10 then ship the xf100. Do you have any clips of the xf100 in dynamic OIS with any effect? Thank you
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Old May 17th, 2011, 08:04 PM   #12
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

I threw together some clips of my little Grandson running in the park to test the DYNAMIC stabilizer of the XF-100. I used my own special OUTDOOR setting. However, I am not impressed with the YOU TUBE compression. I used 1920X1080i @ 50 Mps 60i. Use the HD setting in the lower right corner and give it time to download.




YouTube - Canon XF-100
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Old May 17th, 2011, 09:41 PM   #13
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Re: XF100 / XF105 and rolling shutter. Can owners / users chime in about this?

Lou that wasn't bad for playing it on my iPhone through 3G. Most YouTube videos look like crap on my phone so I can't wait to watch it when I get a wifi connection. Thanks for posting it.
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