Cheap & reliable CF card - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 8th, 2011, 05:28 PM   #16
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas/Hong Kong
Posts: 154
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

Keep us posted on that 128gb card, decent deal compared with Sandisk 64gb prices.
Sam Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2011, 04:56 AM   #17
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London
Posts: 104
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

have to ask again - does anyone think that Canon will sort this problem out with the other cards, or are the other cards just not good enough?

Who's fault is it? Canon tech, or CF card tech?
Martin Campbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2011, 07:19 AM   #18
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

Dear Friends,

It is not that other cards are not good enough (or fast enough in some cases),
it is that the other cards just do not work in the Canon XF 300 and XF 305.

I know that Axtremex worked very hard to determine why their cards would not initially work in the XF 305.

Their Research and Development Department then determined what was needed to make the cards work.

The Axtremex 64 GB 600x Plus cards will work.

And the new versions of the Axtremex 128 GB 600x cards will work also.

Axtremex has been working on this for the past few months.

Just to be clear, some cards, from other manufacturers, are not fast enough, or the right type of card.
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2011, 07:32 AM   #19
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London
Posts: 104
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

Dan, with the cards that don't work - do you think this is something that could be solved with a firmware/software update on either cards or camera?


I bought 4 x 16GB Transcend cards. I stupidly didn't look at the smallprint on the canon site saying that they could not do slow motion recording. Pretty disapppointed, and I've not opened the cards out the the box yet (ordered from US to the UK so cannot really return) so could still sell them on I suppose.
Martin Campbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2011, 07:57 AM   #20
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

Dear Martin,

A CompactFlash card consists, internally, of a controller and memory chips.

The controller runs firmware. For the CompactFlash cards that I am familar with, the firmware can only be updated with very special equipment, usually by the factory.

Thus, while I do not have specific knowledge about Transcend's practices, I doubt that they could send you a firmware update to make their cards work with the Canon XF 305.
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2011, 08:27 AM   #21
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London
Posts: 104
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

thanks Dan - wasn't sure. Just thought it very strange that although the card was capable of the read/write speed, it still couldn't handle the slow-mo. I take it that if I tried to shoot slow mo then it would just reject, or would it be prone to fail? (I don't have the camera as yet!)
Martin Campbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2011, 09:13 AM   #22
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

Dear Martin,

I do not know what the XF 305 would do, in Slow and Quick mode, with a non-supported card.

I have not personally tested it.

But, I would expect it to fail.
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2011, 12:54 AM   #23
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 11
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

Thanks for the update, Dan.

Please let us know when the new Axtremex 128GB CF cards (that support the Canon XF 300 & XF305) are available.
Karen Schwartz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2011, 03:52 AM   #24
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 238
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

For your information, there is a firmware upgrade available for the XF100/XF105:

"Firmware Version 1.0.1.0 incorporates the following fix.

Support was added for slow-motion shooting with the following Lexar CF cards.
(1) Lexar Professional x600 16GB (LCF16GBCRBJP600)
(2) Lexar Professional x600 8GB (LCF8GBCRBJP600)
(3) Lexar Professional x300 16GB (LCF16GBCRBJP300)
(4) Lexar Professional x300 8GB (LCF8GBERBJP300)
(5) Lexar Professional x300 4GB (LCF4GBCRBJP300)"

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/suppor...ersAndSoftware

If you're using any of the above cards I guess it's worth upgrading. No mention of 32GB cards or the 400x though.

BR, Erik

Last edited by Erik Norgaard; June 10th, 2011 at 04:32 AM. Reason: Forgot to add the link
Erik Norgaard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2011, 05:44 AM   #25
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 238
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Young View Post
You shouldn't, I have a Lexar 400x 32gb card, and it records the entire 79 mins without problems. I haven't tried slow-mo yet, and won't since I do it in post if I want slow-mo.
I have two identical Lexar 400x 32GB cards, one works fine, but the other stops every 5 minutes when the current file must be closed and a new opened. It works fine for recordings of less than 5 minutes ... sort of takes you back to the 35mm era where a reel would hold 4 minutes and you just had to plan for that...

I'm a bit puzzled as to this compatible or not discussion, the card is just a storage media that provides a specific read and write rate, and that's it. It works or it doesn't ... how can it work but not in slow? My only explanation is that it's a question of Canon certification procedure or policy... I just tried the 400x card and it does fine in 50p/25 slow .. well, didn't try more than 5 min.

Not that I would advocate the cheapest cards though, there may be differences in integrity checks or other issues that could result in lost footage.

BR, Erik
Erik Norgaard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2011, 04:12 PM   #26
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas/Hong Kong
Posts: 154
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

Wow, that is very interesting, and yet disappointing. I plan on buying for of the lexar 400x cards, maybe I will just go with 600x. Thanks for the warning!

I am also waiting for the Axtremex too, I wouldn't mind a 64gb card at the prices they are offering for.
Sam Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2011, 02:53 AM   #27
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 3,445
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Young View Post
Wow, that is very interesting, and yet disappointing. I plan on buying for of the lexar 400x cards, maybe I will just go with 600x. Thanks for the warning!
The Lexar 400X cards are not on the Canon approved list why would you even consider buying them? The Sandisk Extreme cards are widely available & guaranteed to work in all circumstances so appear the obvious choice for purchase.
Nigel Barker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2011, 06:00 AM   #28
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 238
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Barker View Post
The Lexar 400X cards are not on the Canon approved list why would you even consider buying them? The Sandisk Extreme cards are widely available & guaranteed to work in all circumstances so appear the obvious choice for purchase.
The fact that some cards are certified and tested does not imply that other cards don't work. Certifying cards is just a way Canon can make money from companies like Lexar and SanDisk. These companies may then make a profit advertising their cards as certified and selling same at a premium price. But on the other hand, they have no interest in certifying each and every product, those who insist buying the certified product will be happy with one or two choices.

As I wrote before, the card is just a storage media, supporting a specified read/write speed. If the card meets the requirements of the camera the card should work without a glitch. Given that the 300x (and the 600x) is certified and the 400x is in the same product series I'd take compatibility for implied.

As long as Canon have not qualified what this CF card certification means and why some non-certified card may not work, as long as they say that certain recording modes won't work with certain cards that are otherwise compatible, without further explanation, I don't find that certification very credible. Then it seems you're just paying extra for essentially the same product and paying more for the same is usually not considered very rational.

On amazon.co.uk just to use an example, the 300x is 60% more expensive than the 400x, that's a huge difference for to almost identical products. You might just take the chance, should there be one "lemon" for every 2 "oranges" it's still cheaper.

Now, on amazon.de, the difference is just about 8%, but the 300x is still more expensive. With that difference, since I know that I won't get any benefit from the added speed, I might just take the 300x because it's on the list.

(At the current pricing, you should buy 400x in Amazon UK but 300x in Amazon DE)

BR, Erik
Erik Norgaard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2011, 07:29 AM   #29
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,093
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Norgaard View Post
Certifying cards is just a way Canon can make money from companies like Lexar and SanDisk.
If you don't have solid, objective evidence for a statement like this, don't say it. And even it would be true, it is definitely not the whole story...

Quote:
As I wrote before, the card is just a storage media, supporting a specified read/write speed. If the card meets the requirements of the camera the card should work without a glitch. Given that the 300x (and the 600x) is certified and the 400x is in the same product series I'd take compatibility for implied.
IMO, not good advice at all. As Dan nicely pointed out, card brands and models ARE internally different from each other. Manufacturers buy different binning (read: quality) of parts and run them with different firmware, oftentimes changing specs over time in the same line of product. You see people run into problems related to this with computer RAM all the time. Some cards just aren't as fast as others, some don't have quite the quality control as others, and some probably have firmware limitations that others don't have. "Assuming" on this point is a great way to burn yourself.

Canon will not benefit from their customers having recording issues due to CF cards so the certified list makes sense, but that does cost them time and money. Canon went to the expense of engineering a firmware update to add the high end Lexar cards. Why? It seems much more credible that the answer lies in some aspect of the cards they needed to address before they could certify them. Certainly not to screw their customers but to try to expand options while preventing problems for customers.

And they've promised a firmware upgrade for the 300/305 later this year to add features. Good on Canon! I don't know, but when they recover enough from this spring's earthquake and tsunami, it wouldn't surprise me if future firmware updates allow more high end cards onto the certified lists for both the 100 and 300 series. So will they certify some of these cheap cards you guys keep wanting to buy for this professional camera? I doubt it very much; I really don't see why they'd bother spending more money testing a whole bunch of low end cards. Or maybe they have tested some and they didn't make the cut...they're not going to diss those manufacturers by putting them on a public black list. They just don't get on the approved list.

I've stated my opinion on this issue before and it is rather harsh: do as you will; it is your money and your risk. But if you bought a professional camera costing thousands of dollars and then choose to cheap out and stray outside of the camera manufacturer's explicit recommendations...well, we love to quote movies here at DVinfo... "you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"

Me, I just budgeted a grand for 2 x 64GB Sandisk Extreme Pro cards to go with the camera when I bought it. That's my approach to feelin' lucky.
__________________
Pete Bauer
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein
Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!
Pete Bauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2011, 09:11 AM   #30
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 3,445
Re: Cheap & reliable CF card

+1 what Pete said.

There is obviously an issue with CF cards on the XF cameras which isn't just a 50Mbps bit rate performance thing e.g. the 5DII has 40+Mbps video & you can use pretty much any CF card with no problems. Canon have gone to the trouble of thoroughly testing some brands presumably with the assistance of the vendors but I seriously doubt they are actually charging for the privilege. It's not in Canon's interest that their customers have problems with CF cards which is why the publish the list.

Erik, first say
Quote:
Given that the 300x (and the 600x) is certified and the 400x is in the same product series I'd take compatibility for implied.
& then from your own experience prove that assertion is wrong
Quote:
I have two identical Lexar 400x 32GB cards, one works fine, but the other stops every 5 minutes when the current file must be closed and a new opened.
Just buy the SanDisk Extreme already it's not like they are any more expensive than the Lexar cards that do not work reliably.
Nigel Barker is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:39 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network