Still Confused... XMF files to computer? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 9th, 2011, 08:46 AM   #16
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 2,484
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Graham,

I wish I could answer those questions in a couple of sentences, but the answers are too complicated for that. That's why I have a 3-hour DVD. Mastering the Canon XF305/300 Camcorders training DVD

Sorry of it sounds like I'm just plugging my own product, but really, if you haven't even figured out how to name clips, then I can guarantee you that there are DOZENS of things about your camera that you don't fully understand. And most of them are too complicated to adequately discuss here.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2011, 09:46 AM   #17
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Posts: 489
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Well, I'll take a stab. I have the XF Utility v. 1.1 installed. I then put the CF card from the camera in a card reader and open the software. In the Utility, Canon XF shows up in the left pane of the Utility. It's an iTunes-like interface - choose something in the far left pane to control what shows in the main pane.

With the card selected at the left, the main pane shows three things. The top shows clips on the card (in a choice of views), the middle previews the selected clip, and the bottom has playback controls and other options. Here's a screen shot with the Canon XF selected at left, and one of the clips in the main pane is selected:

http://tams.net/XFUtil.jpg

From this window, I can play back any clip, whether it's still on the card, or backed up to my computer. I just highlight the one I want and click the play button. And there are separate windows you can open that show all the metadata for the selected clip. I didn't include those in the screen shot.

Now, this is the part I'm not sure about, but I think if you choose to do a Backup, that copies the entire contents of the card to the location you specify on your computer. Alternatively, you can choose to create a Virtual Media item and drag just selected clips there. Again, to me it's like creating a playlist in iTunes - I just create a Virtual Media, name it, and drag the clips from the main pane to the name of the Virtual Media in the left pane, and they are copied there. And, the Utility requires that in its Preferences, you designate the location of the backup folder on your computer, so it can find what to display here.

Once I've done this, in Final Cut Pro 7, I just open Log and Transfer, point it to the backup folder, and it just sees all the files and I can import from there. It even sees the Virtual Media items the same as the card or a full backup. I use Doug's advice to NOT convert to Prores, I just set L&T to leave the files native. It doesn't convert them, but just re-wraps them as XDCAM HD422 .mov files - which is what they really are anyway, I think. These are native quality, FCP handles them easily, and the files take up half the space of files converted to Prores. I just drop one in a new Sequence, and when asked, allow FCP to set the Sequence settings to match the clip so there is no rendering needed.

Now, FCP X is a different matter. I don't have that yet, but will be getting it soon. My understanding is that the files on the card and in the Utility backup are not recognized by FCP X and they must be converted or rewrapped some way.

This thread:
Canon XF100 & FCPX recognition issue

...discusses the problem, and offers solutions like conversion software and even a free utility to do the rewrapping. However, in testing this, the free utility doesn't seem to recognize XF Utility Virtual Media items. I think we decided that it only works on full backups (or, I assume, on the original card itself). For a time, I may just leave FCP 7 on my system, use it to L&T, then just drag those .mov files from the Capture Scratch folder into the FCP X "Event" which I believe will work. This is one extra step, but a simple one, and it allows me to retain the great feature of FCP's L&T which lets you set in/out points and only import the part of a clip you need.

PLEASE, others chime in with corrections/additions/improvements to this. If you don't use Final Cut Pro, the stuff about the XF Utility should be the same, but I have no idea what to tell you on the workflow/import stuff. It's really not as complicated as this makes it sound. It takes longer to explain than to just do it. And buy Doug's DVDs - even if you are good enough to figure out every detail of the camera like he did, who has the time?
David Dixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2011, 12:59 PM   #18
Old Boot
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 3,529
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
. . but really, if you haven't even figured out how to name clips, then I can guarantee you that there are DOZENS of things about your camera that you don't fully understand.
Ouch!

Thanks for all the emails I've received today regarding not just my own disquiet on this subject.

David, it sounds like I need to HAVE the CF card still inserted to drag these to one of the "Named" Virtuals. Without the card inserted how do I drag the clips?

David I'll follow your instructions further. Today I was BETA testing some upcoming NLE and FXs, been doing this for five years. But this "Utility" ( utility . . ) is fascinating.

Oh! I've seen some great Canon "How To's" regarding setups, WB, sharing profiles, button determination and so on.

Regards

Grazie
Graham Bernard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2011, 01:39 PM   #19
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Posts: 489
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Bernard View Post
Ouch!

David, it sounds like I need to HAVE the CF card still inserted to drag these to one of the "Named" Virtuals. Without the card inserted how do I drag the clips?

Oh! I've seen some great Canon "How To's" regarding setups, WB, sharing profiles, button determination and so on.

Regards

Grazie
Right - until you've moved the clips to your computer, either through a full backup or by dragging clips into a Virtual Media item you've created, they are not yet ON your computer, so to access them you'll have to have the card in the reader. And, again, you don't have to even use the Virtual Media option at all.

And on the setups, etc., do you mean things you found here or elsewhere on the web, or in private emails you were sent? Please share some of these here when you get the chance.

With most camcorders or DSLRs, the software that comes with the camera is usually so limited as to be useless, especially for Mac users who already have iPhoto and iMovie. I assumed this was the same way, and didn't even install the Utility. But after seeing Doug's video, it looked like it was pretty useful, perhaps even *necessary* for an easy workflow. So it's been very helpful for me - I assume that at some point Canon will update it for FCP X.
David Dixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2011, 03:24 PM   #20
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Covington, Louisiana
Posts: 179
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
Tom, just don't neglect to adequately archive your original MXF files. Those are your negatives. You may regret it someday if all you have is converted MOV files.
Thanks, Doug. Good info.

Now, what's the best way to archive these files? I'm sure this has been discussed here. I'm sitting here, looking at 15 external hard drives holding video. Now I realize that hard drives are not a reliable way to store this data. (Haven't had the drive failure yet -- well not one I couldn't recover from -- but I'm told they are not reliable.)
Tom Gresham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2011, 04:24 PM   #21
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,384
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Raid array is your best bet. I use a pair of 8tb Promise raids that I think are raid 5 configured. Each raid has four 2TB drives. The setup monitors the drives and let's you know if one is failing. All you have to do is pull that drive, replace it with a new one and it rebuilds the data. There are larger systems that do the same thing but very expensive. Essentially, data is not safe unless its in two separate places. Tape drives are another alternative but expensive and slow.
__________________
A7RII, C100, 1Dx, 5Dmk3, 70D, Kessler goodies, Adobe, Pro Tools and more!
Robert Turchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2011, 02:58 AM   #22
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 3,445
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Log & Transfer in FCP did a great job for us of letting us skim through the clips mark in & out points & just import what is required. Now we are moving to Premiere Pro we are struggling to find some equivalent. It looks like the XF Utility may go some of the way. I had been using Terminal commands to drill down into the cards & copy the MXF files to a single folder but it looks like the XF Utility has a function to export MXF files to a folder.
Nigel Barker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2011, 12:07 PM   #23
Old Boot
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 3,529
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Right, I think I've got this Utility nailed.

It's been a question of definitions:-

A] A Backup is simply that. A backup.

B] Virtual Media is a folder I can name.

My workflow:-

1 - Name a place for my backups and do it by export media

2 - Create a Virtual Media folder and copy FROM the CF card in the utility's upper window TO the empty Virtual Media folder window

So, I can make a backup and then go on to make a NAMED (editable name) folder, and those folders are defined as virtual media folders.

Well, I'll persevere with this just so I can have an alternative exo my NLE's Media Manager.

Grazie
Graham Bernard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2011, 05:36 PM   #24
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Jupiter, FL
Posts: 164
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Hi Everyone,
My XF300 came in on Friday & love it in all ways so far. Two possible exceptions are the sharpness of the teleconverter and usefulness of the remote. It has the EFV cap as standard, put a lanyard on it.

The Canon Utility disc reads Ver 2.0. I'd given up on trying to use this utility when I tested the XF100, so thought I'd give it another go. Page 13 & 24 of the instructions have a clear workflow on how to download & use the utility. Success. I was able to put a test shoot on an external drive and read them in the utility. Then my computer froze on just about every clip. May be not enough Ram.

Played all clips, about 17 minutes in total through PP 5.5. Perfect, with no computer freeze.

Ran the same clips through the Sony Viewer (thanks Chris H.) and it worked fine, but with one freeze. Look back on this forum for the link to the Sony Viewer.

Did a much longer shoot today and this worked fine:
1. Drag files to external HD directly from the card, just like the .mov files from my 7D.
2. Opened Sony Viewer
3. Watched each clip & noted the deletes. Not a single freeze until I messed with some of the settings.
4. Backed up the good clips on another external HD.

Simple is good.

There may be metadata lost or other downside issues that I'm not aware of, but so far so good & I hope this helps.

Regards,
Doug.

Last edited by Doug Bailey; September 11th, 2011 at 05:45 PM. Reason: Spelling
Doug Bailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11th, 2011, 10:01 PM   #25
Old Boot
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 3,529
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

So to recap, Doug, you've installed ver2.0 of the Canon Utility and have used it to import clips onto an external hard drive. But you are now using the Sony Utility to read/play the files? Yes?

Grazie
Graham Bernard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2011, 08:27 AM   #26
Old Boot
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 3,529
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

OK .. .

I can create a Backup - useful.

I can create a Virtual Media option and name it and drag/paste clips into it - useful too.

But here's the thing: doing this doubles up the hard drive usage: Media in Backup and Media in the Virtual. I don't have an issue with this, but I was under the impression that Media once backed-up "formed" the basis of the Virtual - nuh-uh!

So, my Virtual is not so Virtual, it is REAL clips.

OK . . .

Naming a piece of footage for future reference. How about "Clip Name"? - Nuh-uh . . . It is "Clip Title" that you get to change. and here's the OTHER thing:-

I can EITHER

A] decide to at base type out a "Memo Profile" and save to the SD card, where I'm told that would be the info the Canon XF Utility would then use . . (on import?) . .

OR:-

B] Decide to do this once back at base, post shoot.

Having setup a "Memo Profile" AFTER the Event, how do I now flood the information into the Clip Columns? Without the need to Copy/Paste, presently I'm at a loss on how to do so.

I've tried the Load Memo, but this just stares back at me with my typing in place.

What a palaver . . .

TIA

Grazie
Graham Bernard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2011, 08:31 AM   #27
Old Boot
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 3,529
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Oh yes, and here's the payoff: None of the field information I've painstakingly added appears in MS Explorer nor my VegasPro.

Happy Days!

Grazie
Graham Bernard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #28
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Burbank, CA 91502
Posts: 946
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Doug-
Glad to here you got a camera..........

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com
Jim Martin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2011, 04:15 PM   #29
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Jupiter, FL
Posts: 164
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Hi Jim & Graham,

Jim, thanks for your help on the phone. I will definitely work with you in the future. Found one and just had to jump on it.

Graham, the workaround discussed above does not use the Canon Utility at all. I found it too complicated. There may be a downside that I can't see, but the upside is speed and simplicity. All I'm using the Sony Viewer for is to look for junk clips prior to saving on a second external drive. PP5.5 can take it from there.

Regards,
Doug.
Doug Bailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2011, 03:57 AM   #30
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 3,445
Re: Still Confused... XMF files to computer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Bailey View Post
The Canon Utility disc reads Ver 2.0.
I am guessing that this means version 2 of the disk as the latest version of the XF Utility itself that is available for download is 1.1
Nigel Barker is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:13 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network