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Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


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Old March 4th, 2012, 07:46 AM   #1
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Problem importing clips from XF105 into Premiere Pro CS5.5

We just shot a project & ended up with a single 46 minute take with an XF105. Trying to import this into Premiere Pro CS5.5.2 (latest version) on Mac OS X 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard) has caused no end of trouble & wasted a couple of days. The problem at its simplest is that the take is made up of 9 MXF files. If I import via the Media Browser viewing as Canon XF it sees one clip but when imported the individual files are out of sequence. So if the files are FILE01, FILE02, FILE03, FILE04 etc what the timeline effectively ends up with is actually FILE01, FILE03, FILE02, FILE04. It took us a while to figure out what was going on as we were importing the clip & then using PluralEyes to synchronise the clip with some DSLR footage & a couple of audio tracks. However if we take PluralEyes & the other files out of the equation there is still the same problem. As an alternative I tried viewing the individual files as File Directory in the Media Browser & importing them one by one & placing them on the timeline. This time it screwed up as each file was seen as being 46 minutes long so the whole project was 9 x 46 minutes long & there was no way to synchronise with the other assets. This problem was entirely reproducible on two different Mac Pros.

Has anyone else seen a problem where Premiere Pro messes up the import? I suppose that it could be that the camera has caused the problem by writing an incorrect XML directory file but doubt it as I was able to successfully import the clip into FCP7 using Log & Transfer.

To allow us to carry on working I was able to export a single ProRes file from FCP7 & import this into Premiere Pro but this is a convoluted workflow that should not be necessary.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 10:31 AM   #2
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Re: Problem importing clips from XF105 into Premiere Pro CS5.5

I believe you should only select ONE of the clips and Premiere will find the rest. The XF105 files are like XDCAM files. From the help:

Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 * Importing assets from tapeless formats

Quote:
ABOUT SPANNED CLIPS

When a shot or take is recorded requiring more than the file size limit of a medium, a file-based camcorder starts another file, and continues recording the shot to that file without interruption. This is referred to as clip spanning because the shot spans more than one file or clip. Similarly, a file-based camcorder sometimes spans a shot across clips on different cards or disks, if the camcorder has more than one card or disk loaded. It records the shot until it runs out of room on the first medium, then starts a new file on the next medium with available space, and continues recording the shot to it. Although a single shot or take can be recorded to a group of multiple spanned clips, it is designed to be treated as a single clip.

For P2 and XDCAM EX, Premiere Pro imports all of the spanned clips within a single shot or take as a single clip. It will import all the clips within a shot on a card when you select any one of them, provided none of the spanned clips is missing and the relevant XML is present. When one or more spanned clips are missing from a shot, Premiere Pro will import one or more of them depending on where the missing clips fall within the shot.

To import a group of spanned clips, select one of them to import all of them. If you select more than one spanned clip, you will import duplicates of the whole group of spanned clips as duplicate clips in the Project panel.

If the group of spanned clips itself spans two P2 or XDCAM EX cards, copy the full directory trees from them both to same-level folders on the hard disk before importing. For P2 media only, you can alternatively import clips spanning two P2 cards if both cards are simultaneously mounted to your computer.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 11:19 AM   #3
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Re: Problem importing clips from XF105 into Premiere Pro CS5.5

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Originally Posted by David Trayers View Post
I believe you should only select ONE of the clips and Premiere will find the rest. That would explain the 9 x 46 minute clips problem when I was trying to work around the initial problem of browsing the folder as Canon XF when I see just one clip & import that. It's then when you drop it on the timeline that you discover that the order of the files that make up the clip has been jumbled up.
I am trying to establish whether this is a known problem or maybe something screwy with this particular card &/or recording. We have been using Premiere Pro with files from an XF105 & a XF305 & never had this problem before. The only problem that we have seen is that it's impossible to use Project Manager to make a copy of the project as it fails with 'Unknown error' but is OK if there are no XF files in the project.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 02:49 AM   #4
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Re: Problem importing clips from XF105 into Premiere Pro CS5.5

Nigel,

- How long is the clip you have trouble with?
- How many individual clips does the continuous shot end up with, four of them?
- What settings did you use in the camera, 1080i25, 720p50, other setting, 35Mbps or 50 Mbps?
- Have you tried to reproduce it on a Windows machine?

If you give me the answers i will try to reproduce it on a Windows machine. If you can upload the content of the card i will happily download it so i can use the same media as you. Send me a PM with a link if you don't want to share it on the forum.

In the latest XF Utility you can merge spanned clips and export it as one (1) continuous clip. That will save you time if it happens again. I have tried it and it works as a charm.
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Old March 9th, 2012, 04:43 AM   #5
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Re: Problem importing clips from XF105 into Premiere Pro CS5.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Averdahl View Post
- How long is the clip you have trouble with?
46 minutes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Averdahl View Post
- How many individual clips does the continuous shot end up with, four of them?
There are nine separate files. I don't recall the exact order that it messed them up but I think that the one that was fifth or sixth was imported as the second file but then was repeated in the correct sequence so actually the second file was not imported at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Averdahl View Post
- What settings did you use in the camera, 1080i25, 720p50, other setting, 35Mbps or 50 Mbps?
1080 25p
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Averdahl View Post
- Have you tried to reproduce it on a Windows machine?
No as I don't have Premiere on a Windows machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Averdahl View Post
If you give me the answers i will try to reproduce it on a Windows machine. If you can upload the content of the card i will happily download it so i can use the same media as you. Send me a PM with a link if you don't want to share it on the forum.

In the latest XF Utility you can merge spanned clips and export it as one (1) continuous clip. That will save you time if it happens again. I have tried it and it works as a charm.
Thank you very much for your generous offer of help but the clips amount to about 20GB & it would take far too long to upload on my broadband connection.

The real frustration with this problem was that it took so long to figure out & then I had to repeat it a few times to confirm it was reproducible. I will watch out if it happens again & if it does then it's good to know that the latest version of the XF Utility will allow me to import & merge the spanned files into one continuous clip as that would have fixed our problem without having to fire up FCP7.
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Old March 9th, 2012, 09:50 AM   #6
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Re: Problem importing clips from XF105 into Premiere Pro CS5.5

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Originally Posted by Nigel Barker View Post
Thank you very much for your generous offer of help but the clips amount to about 20GB & it would take far too long to upload on my broadband connection.
O.k, i understand! :)

I created a DVD yesterday with timecode for testing purposes so i can test this issue, and since you gave all details it will be easy to test. I will report back my findings.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 02:39 AM   #7
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Re: Problem importing clips from XF105 into Premiere Pro CS5.5

Nigel,

I tried this on a Windows machine with a clip that is one hour long and i could not reproduce the issue.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 11:36 AM   #8
 
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Re: Problem importing clips from XF105 into Premiere Pro CS5.5

So what happened Nigel?
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Old May 7th, 2012, 03:58 AM   #9
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Re: Problem importing clips from XF105 into Premiere Pro CS5.5

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Originally Posted by Jalan Salur View Post
So what happened Nigel?
We haven't seen the problem again so must just put it down to some random inexplicable error.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 04:00 AM   #10
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Re: Problem importing clips from XF105 into Premiere Pro CS5.5

What ever order you select the clips in will be replicated on the timeline, so if your select 1, 3, 5, 2, 4 etc. then this will be the order that they appear on the timeline.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 09:31 AM   #11
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Re: Problem importing clips from XF105 into Premiere Pro CS5.5

I just found the cause & the solution as I encountered exactly the same problem importing files from a C300 in both Premiere Pro CS5.5 & CS6.

The problem only occurs when the files are stored on a Synology DS1511+ NAS. I have been using the XF Utility to backup the CF card to a directory on the NAS. The XF Utility is able to access the files OK but Premiere Pro screws up the order of the individual files when assembling them as one clip. I also discovered that using Log & Transfer in FCP7 also fails when trying to import from the backup folder on the NAS. Premiere Pro treats the files correctly & I can Log & Transfer OK in FCP7 when the folder is copied to a local disk.

So where does the problem lie? It's clearly not Premiere Pro as FCP7 also has a problem with the folder structure. Is it with the NAS or is it with OS X? I am using the latest DSM V4 on the NAS & mounting the shared folders with AFP not SMB & am using the latest Snow Leopard 10.6.8.

I am just relieved that I have found the cause & a workaround for what was a very frustrating problem.
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