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Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


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Old August 12th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #1
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Frame rates and shutter speeds

Greetings. I will be going to Alaska to video the bears. I will be using a Canon XF300. Recently I have been playing with different frame rates and shutter speeds. My question is, which of these settings do you all use for videoing wildlife and outdoors in general. They are: 1920 x 1080 60i at 60 fps, 1920 x 1080 30p at 30 fps, or 1920 x 1080 30p at 60fps. I will be editing on Vegas and posting on Vimeo, plus make DVD's and possibly in the future Blue-ray. Thanks for any answers I may get. Bob
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Old August 13th, 2013, 04:39 AM   #2
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

I'd go with 1080 60i with a shutter of 1/60th as my "standard" for that type of video. It's better for action scenes. If you're shooting wildlife, then you never know when you'll be doing a fast panning shot or when the animal might move quickly. The 60i mode is suited for this situation. I don't think the shutter is very important to keep at 1/60th, but that's my usual starting position and then if I'm not getting enough light, I can go to something like 1/48th or slower. I haven't done my own tests yet, but they say it's easier to convert the 60i footage to something else (i.e. 30p or 24p) if that becomes necessary.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 02:15 AM   #3
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

No shoot at 30p or 60p, each frame will capture a complete image, wilth 60i you are capturing two frames to make up a complete frame (interlaced). Interlaced footage can display a tearing effect with fast moving subjects, due to the two frames that make up the one frame.If you intend selling the footage then 24p will be the preferred rate.
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Old August 16th, 2013, 08:53 AM   #4
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

I always shoot at 1/50 and let the camera choose the aperture.
If I cannot get a proper aperture I use a variabele nd filter.
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Old August 16th, 2013, 09:23 AM   #5
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

A good rule of thumb is to use a shutter speed that is double the frame rate, i.e. 24fps = 1/48, 25fps = 1/50, 30fps = 1/60. Of course this is only a guideline. More important is the choice of aperture, the use of a small aperture will degrade the image, especially with cameras that have smaller sensors.
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Old August 16th, 2013, 12:29 PM   #6
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

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A good rule of thumb is to use a shutter speed that is double the frame rate, i.e. 24fps = 1/48, 25fps = 1/50, 30fps = 1/60. Of course this is only a guideline. More important is the choice of aperture, the use of a small aperture will degrade the image, especially with cameras that have smaller sensors.
this can be misleading. most lenses peak in sharpness when closed down 2 or 3 stops. and diffraction typically does not have a significant effect until you get to very high apertures, anything up to f/16 is usually a safe bet and plenty closed down.
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Old August 16th, 2013, 12:37 PM   #7
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

Video camera lenses tend to give their best performance between f2.8 and f5.6, after this you will get image quality loss although an increase in depth of field, including sharply focused dust on your lens, when used with a wide angle setting. Nothing misleading about this.
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Old August 16th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #8
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

Vincent is correct. I wouldn't recommend using the XF305/300 at apertures smaller than f/5.6, and preferably keep it between f/2.8 and f/4, due to the small 1/3" sensor. Diffraction certainly does degrade the image on these cameras at small apertures and it's not hard to see if you do some testing of your own.

To answer the original question, if it was me, I'd shoot 30P @ 1/60 or 1/80. It's been a while since I used an XF305 and I can't remember what the shutter speed options are, but on my Sony cameras, where 1/80 is not normally an option, I set the shutter to 1/80 via the ECS mode. In my opinion, 1/60 is not fast enough to prevent excessive motion blur when shooting action. Just my opinion.

MASTERING THE CANON XF305 & XF300 CAMCORDERS

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Old August 17th, 2013, 03:04 PM   #9
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

Thank you everybody for answering. I will shoot at 30p and 60 frames per second. I leave in the morning I will let you know how it works out when I get back. Thanks again for all your responses Bob
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Old August 18th, 2013, 04:53 AM   #10
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

Bob,

I think you meant to say 30P at 1/60th shutter speed, because if you shoot at 60 frames per second with 30P you'd actually be shooting slow-motion footage. :-)

It is important to understand that frame rate and shutter speed have virtually nothing to do with each other.
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Old August 18th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #11
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Safay View Post
Greetings. I will be going to Alaska to video the bears. I will be using a Canon XF300. Recently I have been playing with different frame rates and shutter speeds. My question is, which of these settings do you all use for videoing wildlife and outdoors in general. They are: 1920 x 1080 60i at 60 fps, 1920 x 1080 30p at 30 fps, or 1920 x 1080 30p at 60fps. I will be editing on Vegas and posting on Vimeo, plus make DVD's and possibly in the future Blue-ray. Thanks for any answers I may get. Bob
Bob, hope you don't mind me pointed this out.

1920x1080 60i (1080i60) is actually 29.97 fps.
1920x1080 30p (1080p30) is also 29.97fps

I would suggest avoid any interlaced format. 1080p30 is a good choice for regular video.

1080p60 is good for slowing down 50% to make smooth slow motion.

1080p30 is good for wen delivery as computer monitors are progressive display already.

1080p30 will be converted to 480i60 for Dvd delivery. Each progressive frame will be split into two interlaced frame in the same exact moment. The progressive content will be preserved. This format is called progressive segmented frame. That's the way using now to display progressive content on interlace device.

1080p30 will also be converted to 1080i60 for BluRay output using the same progressive segmented frame automatically by the encoder.
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Old August 19th, 2013, 12:45 AM   #12
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

Personally, PAL-land here, I can't wait for 100p, 200p . . . and actually, a "Global" non-PAL<>NTSC language too.

And yes, I DO believe in the tooth-fairy too! So there!

Grazie

ps, Doug I'm real glad you stepped in with the correction . . . other noobs will have stumbled over that one and scratched their collective heads.
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Old August 19th, 2013, 02:08 PM   #13
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

Some good information from Taky, too.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 11:04 AM   #14
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

It's maybe a bit late now, but I'd go with Mark Watson's suggestion of using 60i for anything that might involve a bit of fast motion. IMHO, 30p is too jerky. Admittedly, you probably have to re-encode it to 30p for Vimeo, but DVD/BD output to be shown on a TV will benefit from 60i, and if you don't shoot it that way to begin with, you won't have the option later.

60p would be ideal, but the XF cameras don't offer that, and not eveything can display it.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 06:10 PM   #15
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Re: Frame rates and shutter speeds

But 60i won't look very cinematic. It's going to look like live TV sports instead of a filmed documentary. Personally, I don't care for the look of 60i because it looks cheap and home-videoish. But 30P and even 24P will look just fine if when they are done right. Every sports film or action documentary that you've ever seen -- that was actually shot on film -- was likely 24P. Personally, I haven't shot interlaced since 2006, and I've shot a lot of sports and action in those years that all looked great.

The bottom line is that I'd rather have my footage look like NFL Films than ESPN. But the best advice is to do your own testing and see what YOU like best.
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