The Big Step to 4k??? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 30th, 2013, 04:25 AM   #16
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,066
Re: The Big Step to 4k???

Same here, just a very small percentage of my wedding clients is asking for a blu-ray but they all want a dvd, instead I deliver 1080p mp4 files they can play on about every device with a usb stick. I see 4K only as interesting for cropping possibilities but I"m sure my current 1080p camera's will at least be with me another 5 years, by then probably most new camera will be 4K anyway.
Noa Put is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30th, 2013, 06:47 AM   #17
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: LIncolnshire, UK
Posts: 2,051
Re: The Big Step to 4k???

I'm also with James and Noa, I can write Bluray, but don't have a player and have only been asked twice for Bluray over 2000 weddings. Clients want dvd to share with the family and like Noa, I offer mp4 on USB stick if required.

I also agree that a 4k camera would be great for cropping, as I could set up one to capture full stage for my school or music shoots, read the paper until it's finished, then crop any CU, MCU or zooms that I want at the editing stage. Beats setting up and operating 4 cameras :-)

Roger
Roger Gunkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30th, 2013, 07:00 AM   #18
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,066
Re: The Big Step to 4k???

Quote:
I also agree that a 4k camera would be great for cropping, as I could set up one to capture full stage for my school or music shoots, read the paper until it's finished
That would be an interesting experiment how that would work out, I have only 3 dancperformances to shoot next year but was thinking to maybe hire a 4k camera and set it up on one of those performances, so still shoot with my current camera's but just let the 4k one roll unmanned the entire play and see what I can do with it in post.
Noa Put is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30th, 2013, 04:10 PM   #19
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: LIncolnshire, UK
Posts: 2,051
Re: The Big Step to 4k???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
That would be an interesting experiment how that would work out, I have only 3 dancperformances to shoot next year but was thinking to maybe hire a 4k camera and set it up on one of those performances, so still shoot with my current camera's but just let the 4k one roll unmanned the entire play and see what I can do with it in post.
I would be really interested to see the results of that sort of test :-)

Roger
Roger Gunkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30th, 2013, 08:49 PM   #20
Slash Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 4,723
Re: The Big Step to 4k???

Is this theory or reality? Wouldnt you need a really quality lens to extract cus and meds from a wide master? Otherwise itd be 1080p mush no?
Josh Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30th, 2013, 09:34 PM   #21
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canyon Country, CA
Posts: 430
Re: The Big Step to 4k???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
I would be really interested to see the results of that sort of test :-)
If you want to get a good feel for the effect try a GoPro at 4K. You can get really nice smooth 1080 pans this way, and at $400 it's a pretty low cost way to mess with 4K.
Charles W. Hull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30th, 2013, 10:17 PM   #22
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 2,230
Re: The Big Step to 4k???

To Josh Morgan, I guess you get the point by this thread that many think 4k is still in the future and your XF305 is plenty useful. I would agree. The idea of future proofing in my experience is most profitable for equipment makers. No problem to buy cameras out of interest in technology or staying on the forefront, just don't fall into the trap of rationalizing the purchase by saying your current gear is outdated. HD is nowhere near to being outdated.

To comment on Doug Jensen's post about needing to deliver in HD - well, I have found the same situation as the posts here state. HD seems to be way more important to video people than "normal" people.

I often look at my HD cameras and see them as detailed DVD creators becuase so often I ask people if they want a DVD or a high definition Blu-ray and they often say "DVD will be just fine". In my opinion, Sony or I guess "the consortium" really missed the market with the Blu-ray rollout. People were so excited with DVD for years. When HDTVs started gaining momentum they should have priced the Blu-ray players under $50 to introduce the better images and keep the format alive and in peoples homes. Instead they made them too expensive and in the mean time folks just gravitated in other areas left only with their DVD players for optical media.

I do not think DVD will ever go away like VHS did. Nor will Blu-ray ever get past a medium to lower percentage of use among the delivery options. At least with BD or DVD you have a chance your product will be shown in a proper fashion on a television. The opposite being internet delivery where one does not know what kind of viewing experience the client will have, but it is HD...
Tim Polster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30th, 2013, 10:29 PM   #23
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Woodland Hills
Posts: 19
Re: The Big Step to 4k???

Thanks for your awesome comment. I will wait. I love my XF305 and I'll stick with it! I'm curious to see how cheap 4K cameras will be in a few years!
Josh Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2013, 08:53 AM   #24
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 2,230
Re: The Big Step to 4k???

Well, there is cheap and then there is good... Cheap will always be around! Seriously, great video images are not just about resolution. I have been impressed with the codec options on the new Sony 1/3" models. That is a good sign for the future. Light sensitivity (without gain or noise reduction) is very important to me which might prove to be an issue with early smaller chip 4k cameras.
Tim Polster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2013, 05:14 PM   #25
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Port Townsend, WA
Posts: 445
Re: The Big Step to 4k???

As an xf305 owner, I'll add my .02 cents, late as usual, just for anyone reading this down the road. I agree that in my limited market, I don't seen any need for 4K, as I deliver in HD and SD, but none of my clients even know what 4K is. None have asked for Blu Ray, even when I bring it up.

There was a lot of good reasons to get into HD when it came out, as we all know. I can't see those reasons yet for 4K. My xf305 and 5Dmkiii both produce outstanding footage, as does my leased C100. I could use 4:2:2 for the C100 and 5D, but have the option of running a cheap Atomos or something else like Magic Lantern on the 5D, to capture if I thought it was necessary. On the other hand, a friend locally here, who has a xf300, bought a BMC because he does one of a kind landscape environmental work. He has been thrilled with the higher res of the camera.

I was taught a concept in the 80s, called the "Technology Elevator". New products like HD and 4K cameras, etc. go in the top, at the highest price. They eventually, like SD gear, come out on the bottom floor at give away prices. I have always tried to avoid the top floor of the technology elevator, unless there is a real good reason that will help pay back that extra investment quickly, like filling a customer demand for it. A year ago it seemed like "everyone" was convinced 3D was the next wave. It had limited uses. Still not caught on. Everyone will have a 4K camera out in a year or so. If you have the money to play with now, then go for it, but if you could better use that money promoting your business, then it likely would be better spent there.
Al Bergstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2013, 06:12 PM   #26
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: LIncolnshire, UK
Posts: 2,051
Re: The Big Step to 4k???

" HD seems to be way more important to video people than "normal" people."
I think that this comment from Tim hits the nail right on the head. As video producers, we know the possibilities and admire the results that higher and higher resolutions, bigger sensors, more pixels etc can produce. It's very easy to forget that all of that is totally over the heads of the vast majority of our clients who are used to watching dvds, and highly compressed repeats of old tv programmes.

My clients want their memories on a disc that they can watch with their families, capturing the emotion and fun of their day. They are not interested in how or on what it is recorded and edited, rather that they can watch it to a similar quality to what they are used to seeing without really thinking about what it is presented on. There are always exceptions but they are few and far between when dealing with ordinary people rather than video professionals.

In response to Josh Bass, I already use crops from 1920x1080 at 50p, sometimes down to 30% of full frame if output is to be to dvd. I would expect a 4k camera with high quality lens to be capable of standing up to far greater crops. I might notice a softening of the image, but the ordinary man in the street will be interested in the content and will just not see it with our eyes.

Roger
Roger Gunkel is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XF Series HD Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:28 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network