The Big Step to 4k??? at DVinfo.net

Josh Morgan · October 28th, 2013, 01:45 PM

Hi guys! I have the Canon XF305. After lots of research, I found the Sony's new affordable 4k camera the PXW-Z100. It retails for $5,500. My question is, should I sell the XF305 for this camera? Here are the specs for Sony's camera:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1004182-REG/sony_pxw_z100_4k_handheld_xdcam_camcorder.html

Noa Put · October 28th, 2013, 01:59 PM

I think we can"t answer that question for you with so little info, do you need 4K or Is it something your clients expect?

Josh Morgan · October 28th, 2013, 03:43 PM

It is not something my clients expect. It's something I was curious about since new technology is coming out like the new 4K tv's and such. I was just worried that my Canon is already too outdated.

Josh Bass · October 28th, 2013, 05:05 PM

When I first got started, I bought so much stuff 'cause I just thought I "had to have it to be a good filmmaker" (I wasn't even doing much paid work at the time!). Over time I sold some of that stuff, kept some, but have generally gotten a lot more conservative about buying things without a need. I'm getting to the point with certain things (still don't an HD camera!) where it's becoming quite a pain to rent but the investment still freaks me out.

What I'm getting at is this 4K thing is so new, and such overkill for so many projects, that I would think really hard before getting one. I'm looking into something along the lines of the EX1 myself, which I've read on some message boards is an "old" or "outdated" camera. Well, I still see em on legit, budgeted, crewed shoots all over town and and the picture is sharp as crap and generally looks very nice. Doesn't seem outdated to me!

Noa Put · October 28th, 2013, 05:24 PM

I think your xf305 is far from outdated, that's an excellent camera, the only thing I would consider 4K for is to have a stationary camera at a wedding in church for instance so I could edit that 4k image in a 1080p project as I could crop the image without quality loss and choose different angles or zoom in- or out. Even for dance performances this would be a great solution, just have the full stage in view and while editing zoom in or out to change the frame. But other then that I don't need 4K the next years, 1080p will do just fine for the clients I work for. Also 4k doesn't always mean it's always that better, a gopro can do 4k as well but I bet it won't look better then the image from your Canon.

Bruce Watson · October 28th, 2013, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Morgan

I was just worried that my Canon is already too outdated.

It's only outdated if you think it is. IOW, if it can't do something you need done. Is that the case?

Personally, I'm not interested in 4K. Probably not for a decade or more. But I'm interested in that Sony Z100 because it'll give me 10 bit 4:2:2 in 1920 x 1080 at 60p. And that, I can use right now.

Josh Bass · October 28th, 2013, 06:17 PM

The general biz advice I've heard is don't buy anything (wealthy hobbiest aside) that won't pay for itself in a year or year and a half, unless it "never" becomes obsolete (i.e. a multicart/rocknroller, etc.). Will your clients pay extra for the extra "k"?

Kyle Root · October 29th, 2013, 11:03 AM

I'm with some of the others here... if no one is going to pay you for it... no need to get it.

I've been filming weddings for 13 years, and have moved to HD, and have only delivered one Blu Ray video in the past 4 years. Everyone still wants regular DVDs, or they want it on a memory stick.

I think we're still several years away from the proliferation of 4K TVs and monitors.

Doug Jensen · October 29th, 2013, 02:06 PM

Really? In 2013 when everyone has an HD television and Blu-ray players cost about $75 you aren't delivering finished products in HD? If you ask me, you are missing out on an opportunity to up-sell your services and charge more for HD. Customers WILL pay extra and it's practically no extra effort on your part. Even if they say they don't want HD today, I'd still shoot and edit in HD so I could turn around and charge them for an HD version in the future. I'd just have to dust off the master, deliver it, and cash the check . . . extra money in the bank with virtually no effort.

No matter how great we all are at production, ultimately we are all salesmen and educating the customer is part of the job. And if you're not delivering HD in 2013, you're missing the boat and not keeping pace with the competition.

Kyle Root · October 29th, 2013, 02:36 PM

I'd love to deliver more on BD, because the cogs are super low cost vs quality. But I pre-screen all my clients and that's one of the things I inquire about is if they have a Blu Ray player, and so far, I've only had one person who could play back a BD.

I guess I live in a low tech area. I just got my first actual Blu Ray player last Christmas. (I got my actual burner in my compter in 2011).

Mark Koha · October 29th, 2013, 02:40 PM

4k is useless unless you are blowing up the images. It is going to be a while before it becomes a more viable resolution.

Kyle Root · October 29th, 2013, 08:53 PM

The more I think about this option, of being able to essentially zoom in (blow up) the picture on a 1080 timelime, the more I actually would lean towards going ahead and buying a 4K camera. That is a really neat thing to be able to do, and not lose quality.

Phil Goetz · October 29th, 2013, 09:01 PM

It is a big step. I work at a camera shop. At the end of September I shot on the Sony F55. I shot 4k as XAVC to a SXS card and I shot RAW on a AXS card. 70 grand work of gear including the lens. Last week I put Premiere (Creative Cloud) on a PC. I was able to play the XAVC 4k footage in the timeline. We put a 4k BlackMagic card in the computer. I got the HDMI out to show 1080 on a broadcast monitor. Next up was the 4k Seiki consumer monitor. Nothing from Premiere. I downloaded Sony's RAW viewer for free. A colleague helped me get the BlackMagic card settings properly configured on the computer and we were able to see the RAW video in 4K on the monitor. Next up is to try to get the Davinci Resolve 10 BETA working. Pulled the dongle from our rental BMCC and looking forward to seeing what I can do with grading the footage. All I know right now is the 3 way color corrector in FCP7.

Harry Pallenberg · October 29th, 2013, 09:30 PM

I live in Los Angeles which I would not call a low-tech area and I know at least 10 people with awesome projector systems, maxed out sound and a good old SD DVD player hooked up to it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Root

I'd love to deliver more on BD, because the cogs are super low cost vs quality. But I pre-screen all my clients and that's one of the things I inquire about is if they have a Blu Ray player, and so far, I've only had one person who could play back a BD.

I guess I live in a low tech area. I just got my first actual Blu Ray player last Christmas. (I got my actual burner in my compter in 2011).

James Manford · October 30th, 2013, 03:06 AM

Unless your into gadgets or have a friend that is ... you won't be buying into the bluray hype.

Loads of my family & extended family are still using DVD, and only purchased a bluray player because I told them too and explained the benefits.

High definition is here to stay ... 4k is only for the big budget studios etc

Event photography/videography won't need anything more than 1080p high definition.

October 28th, 2013, 01:45 PM	#1
Josh Morgan New Boot Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Woodland Hills Posts: 19	The Big Step to 4k??? Hi guys! I have the Canon XF305. After lots of research, I found the Sony's new affordable 4k camera the PXW-Z100. It retails for $5,500. My question is, should I sell the XF305 for this camera? Here are the specs for Sony's camera:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1004182-REG/sony_pxw_z100_4k_handheld_xdcam_camcorder.html

October 28th, 2013, 01:59 PM	#2
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? I think we can"t answer that question for you with so little info, do you need 4K or Is it something your clients expect?

October 28th, 2013, 03:43 PM	#3
Josh Morgan New Boot Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Woodland Hills Posts: 19	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? It is not something my clients expect. It's something I was curious about since new technology is coming out like the new 4K tv's and such. I was just worried that my Canon is already too outdated.

October 28th, 2013, 05:05 PM	#4
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? When I first got started, I bought so much stuff 'cause I just thought I "had to have it to be a good filmmaker" (I wasn't even doing much paid work at the time!). Over time I sold some of that stuff, kept some, but have generally gotten a lot more conservative about buying things without a need. I'm getting to the point with certain things (still don't an HD camera!) where it's becoming quite a pain to rent but the investment still freaks me out. What I'm getting at is this 4K thing is so new, and such overkill for so many projects, that I would think really hard before getting one. I'm looking into something along the lines of the EX1 myself, which I've read on some message boards is an "old" or "outdated" camera. Well, I still see em on legit, budgeted, crewed shoots all over town and and the picture is sharp as crap and generally looks very nice. Doesn't seem outdated to me! __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

October 28th, 2013, 05:24 PM	#5
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? I think your xf305 is far from outdated, that's an excellent camera, the only thing I would consider 4K for is to have a stationary camera at a wedding in church for instance so I could edit that 4k image in a 1080p project as I could crop the image without quality loss and choose different angles or zoom in- or out. Even for dance performances this would be a great solution, just have the full stage in view and while editing zoom in or out to change the frame. But other then that I don't need 4K the next years, 1080p will do just fine for the clients I work for. Also 4k doesn't always mean it's always that better, a gopro can do 4k as well but I bet it won't look better then the image from your Canon.

October 28th, 2013, 06:17 PM	#7
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? The general biz advice I've heard is don't buy anything (wealthy hobbiest aside) that won't pay for itself in a year or year and a half, unless it "never" becomes obsolete (i.e. a multicart/rocknroller, etc.). Will your clients pay extra for the extra "k"? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

October 29th, 2013, 11:03 AM	#8
Kyle Root Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Decatur, AL Posts: 881	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? I'm with some of the others here... if no one is going to pay you for it... no need to get it. I've been filming weddings for 13 years, and have moved to HD, and have only delivered one Blu Ray video in the past 4 years. Everyone still wants regular DVDs, or they want it on a memory stick. I think we're still several years away from the proliferation of 4K TVs and monitors. __________________ Kyle KR Productions; www.kyleroot.com

October 29th, 2013, 02:06 PM	#9
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,417	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? Really? In 2013 when everyone has an HD television and Blu-ray players cost about $75 you aren't delivering finished products in HD? If you ask me, you are missing out on an opportunity to up-sell your services and charge more for HD. Customers WILL pay extra and it's practically no extra effort on your part. Even if they say they don't want HD today, I'd still shoot and edit in HD so I could turn around and charge them for an HD version in the future. I'd just have to dust off the master, deliver it, and cash the check . . . extra money in the bank with virtually no effort. No matter how great we all are at production, ultimately we are all salesmen and educating the customer is part of the job. And if you're not delivering HD in 2013, you're missing the boat and not keeping pace with the competition. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

October 29th, 2013, 02:36 PM	#10
Kyle Root Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Decatur, AL Posts: 881	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? I'd love to deliver more on BD, because the cogs are super low cost vs quality. But I pre-screen all my clients and that's one of the things I inquire about is if they have a Blu Ray player, and so far, I've only had one person who could play back a BD. I guess I live in a low tech area. I just got my first actual Blu Ray player last Christmas. (I got my actual burner in my compter in 2011). __________________ Kyle KR Productions; www.kyleroot.com

October 29th, 2013, 02:40 PM	#11
Mark Koha Major Player Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 243	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? 4k is useless unless you are blowing up the images. It is going to be a while before it becomes a more viable resolution.

October 29th, 2013, 08:53 PM	#12
Kyle Root Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Decatur, AL Posts: 881	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? The more I think about this option, of being able to essentially zoom in (blow up) the picture on a 1080 timelime, the more I actually would lean towards going ahead and buying a 4K camera. That is a really neat thing to be able to do, and not lose quality. __________________ Kyle KR Productions; www.kyleroot.com

October 29th, 2013, 09:01 PM	#13
Phil Goetz Austinite Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Austin Posts: 550	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? It is a big step. I work at a camera shop. At the end of September I shot on the Sony F55. I shot 4k as XAVC to a SXS card and I shot RAW on a AXS card. 70 grand work of gear including the lens. Last week I put Premiere (Creative Cloud) on a PC. I was able to play the XAVC 4k footage in the timeline. We put a 4k BlackMagic card in the computer. I got the HDMI out to show 1080 on a broadcast monitor. Next up was the 4k Seiki consumer monitor. Nothing from Premiere. I downloaded Sony's RAW viewer for free. A colleague helped me get the BlackMagic card settings properly configured on the computer and we were able to see the RAW video in 4K on the monitor. Next up is to try to get the Davinci Resolve 10 BETA working. Pulled the dongle from our rental BMCC and looking forward to seeing what I can do with grading the footage. All I know right now is the 3 way color corrector in FCP7.

October 30th, 2013, 03:06 AM	#15
James Manford Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,393	Re: The Big Step to 4k??? Unless your into gadgets or have a friend that is ... you won't be buying into the bluray hype. Loads of my family & extended family are still using DVD, and only purchased a bluray player because I told them too and explained the benefits. High definition is here to stay ... 4k is only for the big budget studios etc Event photography/videography won't need anything more than 1080p high definition.