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Canon XF Series HD Camcorders
Canon XF305, XF205 and XF105 (with SDI), Canon XF300, XF200 and XF100 (without SDI).


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Old November 25th, 2013, 08:23 PM   #1
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Inexpensive match for XF100?

So I've shot 5 weddings so far on my setup, which is a perpetually borrowed XF100 A-cam paired with a refurbed 60D B-cam. While the 60D is fine for getting those artistic macro shots and depth of field that XF100 just isn't capable of, I'm starting to notice how much more pleasant the XF100 is in low-light situations such as dark reception venues. Even though it has a much smaller sensor, when I crank up the sensitivity the picture is much more pleasant to look at than the 60D.

I'd like to keep the 60D for certain shots of course, but for ceremony and reception use, what would be some good budget options that would match well to the picture on the XF100? This would be something locked off to one side for the most part.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #2
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Re: Inexpensive match for XF100?

XA20, perhaps ? I own both but have not tried cutting footage from both. When I needed two cameras (for a church project) I rented a second XA20 and set the codec for both XA20 cameras to MPEG-4.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 01:25 AM   #3
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Re: Inexpensive match for XF100?

I believe the XA10 and the XF100 use the same sensor. Although the codecs are different, I've found the images are a very close match.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 06:59 AM   #4
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Re: Inexpensive match for XF100?

Would any of Canon's higher-end consumer offerings match up well? I know it wouldn't be MXF codecs, but don't need the professional features like XLR on a secondary camera.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 03:33 PM   #5
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Re: Inexpensive match for XF100?

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Originally Posted by Max Palmer View Post
Would any of Canon's higher-end consumer offerings match up well? I know it wouldn't be MXF codecs, but don't need the professional features like XLR on a secondary camera.
About a year about I did a side-by-side comparison between my XA10 and my HF M52 (about $800 USD) and they matched perfectly, so should match the XF100 too.

The HF G10 is another possibility.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 08:47 PM   #6
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Re: Inexpensive match for XF100?

That's good to know. As "amateurish" as it would look to people who don't know\ any better, I'm much more likely to pick up an $800 camera than a $2,000 one. :-)

I know that the footage on the non-XF cameras isn't MPEG2 4:2:2, but are you able to color correct them as easily? I'm having a terrible time trying to get my 60D to match even remotely close to the XF100 in low-light, but I'm also not setting the 60D up as well as I should be in terms of WB an exposure. The noise and difficulty of focus is really getting to me.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 12:05 AM   #7
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Re: Inexpensive match for XF100?

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That's good to know. As "amateurish" as it would look to people who don't know\ any better, I'm much more likely to pick up an $800 camera than a $2,000 one. :-)

I know that the footage on the non-XF cameras isn't MPEG2 4:2:2, but are you able to color correct them as easily? I'm having a terrible time trying to get my 60D to match even remotely close to the XF100 in low-light, but I'm also not setting the 60D up as well as I should be in terms of WB an exposure. The noise and difficulty of focus is really getting to me.
I shot a short doco a couple of years back using a Canon XA10 and 550D. I found the footage pretty much impossible to match in post. I can't say I'm an expert at colour correction but I spent a fair few hours trying and eventually gave up.

Maybe playing around with the camera profiles in the 550D would have helped, I don't know. I guess it's something to do with the vastly different sensor sizes?
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Old November 27th, 2013, 12:30 PM   #8
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Re: Inexpensive match for XF100?

We typically shoot with multiple XF100s for weddings and the odd corporate shoot, matched with Canon DSLRs (mostly 5D3) and also a Canon HF-G10. This can be had pretty cheaply now as it's been replaced.

The G10 is over saturated like hell, so the first thing we do is bring the saturation back 20% in the NLE and use that as a staring point. It also usually needs a little red taking out, but after that, no one has ever said they don't match…

With this in mind, the HF-G10, HF-G20, HF-G25, XA10, XA-20, XA25 would work well as long as you're willing to do a little leg work in post.

What you lose is timecode. What you gain is a small camera that tucks out of the way for unattended shooting. They are allegedly using the same lens and sensor as the XF100, but have different electronics and menus etc. I don't care for the touch screen (I'd rather have buttons) but it's usable.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 12:51 PM   #9
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Re: Inexpensive match for XF100?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jody Arnott View Post
I shot a short doco a couple of years back using a Canon XA10 and 550D. I found the footage pretty much impossible to match in post. I can't say I'm an expert at colour correction but I spent a fair few hours trying and eventually gave up.

Maybe playing around with the camera profiles in the 550D would have helped, I don't know. I guess it's something to do with the vastly different sensor sizes?
I've found the same thing, but I'm far from a color expert. The 60D tends to be much warmer and more "cinema-like", and the XF100 a bit cooler and "video-like". Although the XF's codec has the ability to store much more image data with it's 50mbps MPEG2 acquisition, and when you crank up the sensitivity to compensate for a dark venue, it behaves much better than the 60D. I guess that's what you get for an extra $2000! I even tried the "shot match" feature in Adobe Speed Grade, and the result was nightmarish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Partington View Post
We typically shoot with multiple XF100s for weddings and the odd corporate shoot, matched with Canon DSLRs (mostly 5D3) and also a Canon HF-G10. This can be had pretty cheaply now as it's been replaced.

The G10 is over saturated like hell, so the first thing we do is bring the saturation back 20% in the NLE and use that as a staring point. It also usually needs a little red taking out, but after that, no one has ever said they don't match…

With this in mind, the HF-G10, HF-G20, HF-G25, XA10, XA-20, XA25 would work well as long as you're willing to do a little leg work in post.

What you lose is timecode. What you gain is a small camera that tucks out of the way for unattended shooting. They are allegedly using the same lens and sensor as the XF100, but have different electronics and menus etc. I don't care for the touch screen (I'd rather have buttons) but it's usable.
Good to know. I'm not concerned with the timecode really, because I'm not doing any live camera syncing, or even auto syncing in post... yet. I'll do a little leg work in post, especially if my starting point is so much closer than the 60D. Do you tend to match picture settings inside the XF100 and the HF-G10 first? (white balance, obviously)
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