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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old August 9th, 2007, 05:44 AM   #1
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Bass help

Hi guys,

I filmed a massive wedding a few days ago and the bass was so loud that when I played my tape back all I can hear is POP POP POP. I am in so much trouble now, does anybody know how to fix that and stop it from happening again. The Audio level was set to auto so I dont know why that happened. Also each time the bass reached a certain level my camera shook even though it was on a Manfrotto 701rc2 and a 055xb pro tripod. Any way to remove that shake?
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Old August 9th, 2007, 06:02 AM   #2
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Maybe Apple soundtrack might help, It depends how bad your pop is. The worst case, just do a voice over .

As for putting the audio to auto. Is not really a good idea. I always use maunal and have a headphones on to monitor the audio.Always place one channel lower then the other. In ease if someone or something suddenly goes high. You still have the lower channel to play with.It is also better to have a XLR michrophone. The on board mic is not really for professional usage

I don't really call a Manfrotto 701rc2 and a 055xb pro tripod as steady. It is pretty basic for some lighter cameras but I find that a 503 head with 525 legs to be the basic for the XHA1 or maybe the the 501hdv head.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 07:33 AM   #3
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I got caught out with the same thing on my first outing. You have to make sure and flick the mic att switch (under the flip out screen) before anything loud i.e. The Band, otherwise it will break up like you/me have seen.

My old XL1 used to cope fine with this, so I wasn't expecting it.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 08:17 AM   #4
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In any loud venue (and it sound is loud enough to shake the camcorder it is L O U D) you will need to use the MIC ATT setting, and even more so if using a hot external mic. The problem is clipping at the preamp input, which is located before the gain controls, thus AGC or manual gain alone will not solve it. AGC just keeps the distorted/clipped audio at a reasonable loudness level in the recording . snoted, earphone may help you identify when there is a problem, but if it is that loud, the sound may overwhelm the usefullness of most earphones.

As to shake caused by loud sound, try using OIS, and position your self as far from the loud speakers as you can. This might help.

As to fixing the bad sound you already have - not easy, may be impossible, but there are two approaches. Some audio editing programs, like Adobe Audition, include a filter that can help reduce the effects of clipping. YO could try it, but I would expect only slight improvement. A second option, if the music was from a DJ, might be to obtain the recordings of interest and mix them in on top of the distorted sound (reducing the distorted sound sufficiently so it colors the recording with ambience, but not to the point of total distortion).

There are some anti-shake plug-ins/filters you can obtain for some NLEs, but I've not tried any recently, and the one I tried ~6 years ago was not especially effective. Perhaps someone else can comment on them.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 08:50 AM   #5
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In digital, once it's clipped it's generally clipped. There's no 'going into the red' allowed as in analogue days.

You may well flip the switch to attenuate the mic input, but if you're overloading the mic diaphragms to begin with, then everything is distorted further down the chain.

tom.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 10:03 AM   #6
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The analog meter version of "going into the red" for the A1 and other Canon DV camcorders starts at about -12 dB on the camcorder meter. That is to say, -12 dB on the A1's meter roughly corresponds to the "0 VU" setting on old analog audio meters.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 10:33 AM   #7
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I record all digital audio between -20 and -12 and have found that it's OK to peak up to a -11 or even a -10 in some cases, but I try not to do that. Naturally, record tone at -20.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 02:03 PM   #8
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The trade off is if course the noise floor vs. peak record level. If the noise floor of the recorder is low enough, peaking at -12 is ok. I usually try keep normal program material peaks at around -6 or so, and do not worry is a transient (e.g., door slam or gun shot) clips, not much you can do about those anyway.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 02:10 PM   #9
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That sucks, dude. Next time you really need to have an external mic, flip on ATT, leave +12 boost off and leave the level at auto. I use an AT897 mounted in a shockmount on the hot shoe and have recorded EXTREMELY loud bands in very close proximity with absolutely no problems. Its all about how much sound pressure your mic can take and the on board mic isn't that good with high SPL.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 02:11 PM   #10
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Oh, as far as camera shake... you can fix that in Apple Shake, or with the new Final Cut Studio 2.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 06:12 PM   #11
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For Shake: After EFX works very well.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 09:03 PM   #12
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Bass Solution

Ok just to be clear next time I film a big bash I will
1) Put the camcorder on ATT mode
2) Change the settings to manual
3) Put the left Audio Channel High and the right Low.
4) Stand far back from those crazy speakers.


I cant afford an onboard mike and the tripod head and legs I have are the best I can afford also.
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Old August 10th, 2007, 01:21 PM   #13
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Sound Forge 7 and above have clip removal tools. If it were less than clipped, Adobe Soundbooth offers an amazing tool for removing intermittent sounds like a cell phone, door slam etc.

Eyeon's DFX+ has worked well for me in terms of image stabilization. It's an older piece of software now, so you might find a copy on eBay or a forum.


In martial arts there's the idea of taking the incoming force of an enemy attack and redirecting it to their detriment. The camera shake and clipping reminds me of the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan. Is there a way you could use rhythmic visual effects synced with the beat to express the energy of the event? If the floor was shaking, there's not a tripod in B+H's warehouse that would prevent camera movement. But then also, every participant on the dance floor was feeling it as well. Instead of resisting it, emphasize it....
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Last edited by Scott Brickert; August 10th, 2007 at 01:26 PM. Reason: added info
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Old August 11th, 2007, 11:13 PM   #14
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I'd agree to stand far away from the speakers. I had this same problem with the last wedding I filmed. I was trying to film the different dances and because of the small dance floor I had to be pretty close to the speakers to avoid having people stand in front of me. The bass went across the floor and right up the tripod into the camera. It's not really a shake as it is a blur of the whole picture. I guess I've learned
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Old August 20th, 2007, 12:36 AM   #15
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Hello,

I also had this problem first time using this camera at a wedding. I now double mic at receptions with the wireless being in a "safe" spot for the audio. I am even contemplating buying a zoom h4 for reception recording to cover my butt on shoots.

Angelo
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