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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old November 14th, 2007, 02:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Chia View Post
Set the parameters for 768 x 576 SD and check the box labeled "maintain aspect ratio 16:9"
For some reason my copy of Final Cut 5.1.4 does not have a "maintain aspect ratio 16:9" check box, but rather a "preserve aspect ratio using: letterbox, crop, or fit within dimensions" check box in addition to a deinterlace check box. Weird.

Would it accomplish the same thing to export my HDV sequence to Compressor, then convert it to "uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2", and finally re-import the "uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2" file into Compressor and convert to Mpeg-2?

Thanks,
Hugh
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Old November 15th, 2007, 01:56 AM   #17
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I'm sorry about the confusion , you are right, It doesn't have maintain aspect ratio 16:9. I was think about something else.

Use preserve aspect ratio using and click letter box.

It will be fine when you bring it in to a DVD SP timeline of 16:9 to demux it . You can do a short clip of 10 sec to test if it works for you.
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Old November 19th, 2007, 09:06 AM   #18
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Scale to broadcast safe?

Hi David,
Thank you for your suggestions which I am right now trying.

About broadcast safe:

Do you or others here suggest to scale down to stay broadcast safe?
A fellow says it is fine to scale down the sequence to 91% for SD TV (PAL).
Where is the scaling (or padding) best carried out?

Anybody here who have an opinion? Unfortunately not all TV sets are created equal ...

Thanks for any input! / Johan
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Old November 20th, 2007, 01:49 AM   #19
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Quality discussion

Hi David,

Thank you very much for this workflow! It is good and quite straight forward. Only disadvantages are it is eating disk, about 1.67 GB/minute of video (10 bits) and that the uncompressed QT SD film has incorrect proportions if we try to play it.

However, I can still see artifacts but they are less now. For instance if shooting a blue sky and fading it up/down. (It was shot with a Canon XL H1, 25F, PAL, HDV). But it is perhaps as far as we will come with this kind of equipment.

Thanks! /Johan
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Old November 20th, 2007, 03:12 AM   #20
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Hi Johan,

I'm glad it helps, BTW did you trash your render before you out put it to uncompress. That helps to cut down artifacts. Yes it is incorrect proportions, but it will work fine when you put in inside a 16:9 time line in DVD SP.
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Old November 21st, 2007, 03:18 AM   #21
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HDV -> SD DVD, PAL, Fade artifacts example

Hi David,
Thank you for your workflow solution. This thread is more and more belonging to Linear editing on the Mac but as we started here let's go on.
I deleted the render files and tried it again. Probably a little better now.
However, this fade in of a blue sky is the only limitation in my video in my opinion where there is a quality issue to be concerned. I wish I could make it better.

I also tried to export the clip using ProRes HQ. I considered the result to be about the same at the final SD DVD.

Two advantages compared to uncompressed 10-bit: File size about 25 % and the intermediate .mov file was possible to watch directly with QuickTime and correct aspect ratio.

I encoded a 10 sec test SD DVD file where the problematic blue sky is while fading in. I made it from a Canon D60 still photo to get rid of any moving noise pattern.

Maybe some of you would like to download it and judge if this is as it should be, better or worse.
Perhaps this is as good as it gets with an 8-bits.

I would appreciate your opinion, please.

http://www.regito.com/video/DVD-test-10s.zip

Extract it and open the VIDEO_TS file with DVD player.
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Old November 21st, 2007, 08:27 PM   #22
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render

David I was hoping you might able to comment on this message I posted earlier.

In FCP 6.0 I just discovered that in my HDV timeline I never applied the render to "Preview". Yet before I discovered my mistake I have always exported my quicktime files fine for use as SD on DVD.

Now when I render my timeline for everything such as "preview", I'm not exactly sure what that does or even if it helps in quality for my SD on DVD. btw when I render the "Preview" a message box prompts during the process saying "Conforming HDV Video"

My question is, is the "preview" rendering step necessary? The only thing I noticed different is above the timeline, the green line (Video:Preview) changes to blue (Video:Rendered). And it seem to me that the quality in my quicktime files burned to SD DVD are the same when played back on my television. Am I missing out on something by skipping this step?

Thanks
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Old November 27th, 2007, 04:55 AM   #23
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I not very sure about this , but I have been only using 5.1.4 not FCP6

But I was told that you trash your render before you export to keep the artifacts down.

If you need to preview your section that is not rendered , just use quickview to see how it looks like instead of rendering the section. Helps keep rendering time down and saving disk space.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 11:40 PM   #24
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This is a great thread, thank you for this!

Hi David,

HDV workflow has been a hinderance to me for some time with FCP 5 and Compressor. I will have to try your settings. I have searched and searched for a way to convert video without artifacts and clear SD downconverted video, and Id say after about 120 hours of just searching, trying and failing, that I cant believe I am still searching. So your input helps.

Question, have you or any members tried using Cineform NEO HD to capture with first (via bootcamp through windows or through FCP then converting to Cineform) and then making a timeline, dropping the files in, editing, and then exporting to web, DVD, etc.?

The reason I ask is because the videos and work of the other contributors in this site, like Steven Dempsey (first link), or Ramon (second link) below:

http://www.pinelakefilms.com/short_reel.html
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=89723

all have a crisp look to their final output footage. Im not talking about their cinematography, which is beautiful, but strictly the quality end result file. Granted, its captured through Cineform either via PP or Vegas, edited, and output via Vegas - but Im wondering if using Cineform HD would allow Mac users to have the same sharp images being output through FCP.

Any thoughts or test footage from anyone via this route is appreciated.
Peace and Blessings,

Hidalgo
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Old November 30th, 2007, 01:14 AM   #25
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I tried Davids way...

I tried your suggested route David, and had some pretty good results. Very impressive. Amazing how large Uncompressed 10 bit footage can be! Wow. Your conversion method is definitely a nice alternative. Thank you for that.

So do you think capturing either through Cineform software and editing would give the same effect or better? I would love to see a comparison.

Thank for all of your help.

Hidalgo
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Old December 4th, 2007, 04:22 AM   #26
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I'm glad it helped..

I like to try cineform, but the time is not right for me yet. In the mist of a project, and I need to upgrade my really old mac later.

But I have heard of good results from the people that are using Cineform that I spoke to during IBC2007 in Amsterdam
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Last edited by David Chia; December 5th, 2007 at 02:36 AM.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 10:02 AM   #27
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Just for reference: 1hr of 8bit 4:2:2 = 70gb

Had to buy another hdd to try this method.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 02:43 PM   #28
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David.

So to trash the render files – do you just move them out of the render files folder (in finder), or can you do it from inside FCP?

Bw
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Old December 5th, 2007, 02:22 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sven Ohrvik View Post
David.

So to trash the render files – do you just move them out of the render files folder (in finder), or can you do it from inside FCP?

Bw
Sven
FCP states that one should always use the " Render manager" to delete the rendered files and not use Finder to do so.

Go to the tools tad and use "Render Manager"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Nickell View Post
Just for reference: 1hr of 8bit 4:2:2 = 70gb

Had to buy another hdd to try this method.
Why don't you do a test with a 1 min clip before you decide to try this method. Look at the end results of the 1 min clip before you decide to buy a hard drive.

Like I said in my first post, the down side of this method is hard drive space
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Last edited by David Chia; December 5th, 2007 at 08:13 AM.
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Old December 20th, 2007, 06:36 PM   #30
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David,

Was this edited in a 24f easy setup, or 60i (or 25f, since you are PAL)?

Would your method work with 23.987 material, or would there be any additional steps?

Stu
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