Ultmately dumb question: What is 24f for? - Page 4 at DVinfo.net

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Old September 11th, 2007, 04:50 PM   #46
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And then there was pulldown

Interesting thread.

Surprised no one's yet mentioned the effect of 3:2 pulldown (the method used to transfer 24fps films to 60i videotape in the SD world when "progressive" was not an option) on the viewing experience.

As a European, I found the peculiar motion signature introduced by this (entirely necessary) technique very noticeable, although not unpleasant. It's something that we in PAL land never see because, here, 24fps material is simply sped up to 25fps for transfer to video, as was alluded to above.

Does anyone deliberately shoot 24p and add pulldown to produce a 60i final product, in order to recreate this effect?

(I know people without progressive TVs have no choice in this matter and the DVD player adds the pulldown to 24p DVD material, but it's an interesting thought for those that DO have a choice.)
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Old September 12th, 2007, 09:53 AM   #47
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PAL A1:

I see the default 1/25 as a problem, any time you swith the cam on you need to return it to 1/50 and if you forget to do so... It is an annoying extra step shooting in 25f. Sure if you WANT to use the 1/25 shutter (why not, in a static shot you gain more light) you always can switch to that setting , but for default 1/50 would be best.

If I have to much light, I use an extra ND setting or ND lens, you can however use a higher shutter setting. (I'm shooting 25f 1/50 everything) What do you do? Hw often do you switch to higher shutter? Folowing fast objects? More 'detail' in those objects, without the motion blur you always have with the 1/50?
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Old September 12th, 2007, 10:01 AM   #48
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I'm in NTSCland and when I first switched to 24f mode, the shutter defaulted to 1/24. I moved it to 1/48 and it stays there unless I change it.
A video camera isn't like a still camera, and generally it's not a good idea to use the shutter to control exposure. You will always get some sort of effect if you use a shutter speed different from the norm. If you want the effect, then that's cool.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 11:07 AM   #49
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Is it? Happy you. Only in standby it remains it's shutterspeed, or in card mode. After switching on/off it's gone and you are in 1/25 again (PAL).

Like TC is back to 00:00:00:00 if you switch the cam off. Even if you preset it with a number like tape 4 start with 04:00:00:00
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Old September 12th, 2007, 12:43 PM   #50
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I wonder why the PAL version does that; I don't think it should.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 01:21 PM   #51
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24p in itself isn't that film look that people look for...its only a part of it. Its the 1/48th shutter that gives the motion IN the image. 24fps is just a frame rate but it does add to the film like look. The 1/48th shutter + the 24 cadence = that look that people look for. Shooting 30fps means 1/60th shutter (not always but you get the idea) so 60i, 30p, etc. will always have that video look although 30p does get closer to that nice filmic movement. Film look is more than mere 24p though as other stated, every other aspect of filmmaking goes into that look, light, composition, blah blah blah.

Not sure if I just restated something everyone said but w/e...

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Old September 12th, 2007, 01:32 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Toussaint View Post
Is it? Happy you. Only in standby it remains it's shutterspeed, or in card mode. After switching on/off it's gone and you are in 1/25 again (PAL).
Like TC is back to 00:00:00:00 if you switch the cam off. Even if you preset it with a number like tape 4 start with 04:00:00:00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Pryor View Post
I wonder why the PAL version does that; I don't think it should.
Yes, it shouldn't do that. My PAL A1 does keep shutter and TC information, even when battery is removed.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 02:53 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Poppe Johansson View Post
Yes, it shouldn't do that. My PAL A1 does keep shutter and TC information, even when battery is removed.
So you are happy too? Hmmm...., so its not a limitation on the PAL model but only on the one I use :>(

Some memory that can't hold its power, maybe the internal batterie? Mine does not hold that data, good to have this board Poppe and Bill!
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Old September 12th, 2007, 02:54 PM   #54
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Editing 24F for NTSC TV

If I shoot 24F and edit it in a 24F timeline, once I convert it to interlaced DVD for TV isn't there a loss in quality?

Jim
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Old September 13th, 2007, 03:58 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Poppe Johansson View Post
Yes, it shouldn't do that. My PAL A1 does keep shutter and TC information, even when battery is removed.
Mine too. No default to 1/25th here.
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Old September 13th, 2007, 04:01 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Jim Bucciferro View Post
If I shoot 24F and edit it in a 24F timeline, once I convert it to interlaced DVD for TV isn't there a loss in quality?

Jim
Why would you convert? DVD players can handle 24p. The DVD player will do the conversion to interlaced, you don't have to do this yourself.
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Old September 13th, 2007, 09:34 AM   #57
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Nope...I did some experiments to re-find what is happening during the shoot.

Try this:
Set cam to TV mode
Shutter to 50
Push exp. Lock (so you lock the exposure)
Switch cam off

Switch cam on again
look at the shutter....
its 25 again!

And that is what is happening me during the shoot! BTW my cam holds it data in other circumstances. Like changing batterie. So no problem with it.
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Old September 13th, 2007, 09:48 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Raymond Toussaint View Post
Try this: ....
True. This way it goes back to 25 also in my A1.
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