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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old September 19th, 2007, 02:06 PM   #1
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What is horizontal detail frequency/horizontal-vertical detail balance?

Hi:

The manual gives no clue and trying toggling these showed not clear change. I have searched the web to figure out what these settings do but still no clue:

- horizontal detail frequency
- horizontal/vertical detail balance

What do these control? When should I consider toggling these?

Thanks, Erik
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Old September 19th, 2007, 02:58 PM   #2
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try this two setting -

HDF M
DHV 0
(soft)

and

HDF L
DHV 4
(sharp)

and try this...

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...=81071&page=11

I test this right now.
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Old September 19th, 2007, 03:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel Sedlak View Post
try this two setting -

HDF M
DHV 0
(soft)

and

HDF L
DHV 4
(sharp)[/url]

I test this right now.
What is your subject? what kind of settings are you in? (INT/EXT/DAY/NIGHT)?

At least on the LCD or in the viewfinder I see no significant change (INT/NIGHT).

Thanks, Erik
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Old September 19th, 2007, 03:26 PM   #4
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you must see this on CRT 19" monitor, orig m2t HDV (on small LCD you see noting :-) ).

look for noise and small soft effect.

(best for testing is day light in interier, but this setting work very good in lowlight too)

try this second :

KNE L
BLK M
PED -3 (až -5)
SET 0

SHP 0 (až +2)
HDF L (*M)
DHV 4 (*0)
COR -2
NR1 0
NR2 0

GAM N
CMX 1
CGN 17 (12 -17)
CPH-1 (0)

..it is easier for testing.

Last edited by Pavel Sedlak; September 19th, 2007 at 03:34 PM. Reason: (best..
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Old September 21st, 2007, 07:44 PM   #5
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Hi Pavel. Just curious, what effect does it have when you set coring to negative values? So far I've only used it positive for low light with NR on.

Richard
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Old September 22nd, 2007, 11:17 AM   #6
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Coring have a very small effect, more important are HDF L (*M)
DHV 4 (*0), NR1 0, NR2 0.

About brightness (and black - BLK, SET, PED, KNE) and NR1 and 2 it is very easy set right value, worse it is about cine2/normal vs CMX1/2, it is more difficult and you must have some knowledge (and experience).
Setting COR is from experience only, I test it (and in this parameter I can be wrong).

What do you think about this two custom preset (cine normal a cine2, look at CP), do you like them? (sorry for my english .-) )

-------

you know:

DTL H/V BAL and H DTL FREQ: These controls can help adjust image noise
(that may occur if you have a lot of strong vertical or horizontal lines in the frame).
NOTE: “V DETAIL” is an option compatible only with the XL2 camera, and is that camera’s equivalent of these two
“detail” controls

CORING: Can be helpful in dialing out image noise
(that may be present in densely detailed objects).
Can specifically help reduce some of the “stairstepping” that can occur along diagonal lines.

Last edited by Pavel Sedlak; September 22nd, 2007 at 11:32 AM. Reason: black and ...
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Old September 22nd, 2007, 09:13 PM   #7
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Thanks for the reply pavel.

I thought coring was useful in reducing noise in areas without much detail, for example when you shoot in low light there are usually dark/black areas that tend to show all the grain and noise that come from boosting gain. Coring can help to reduce this noise.

The cine gamma curves can look good if you have enough light. For marginal situations I tend to use normal gamma and adjust in post.

I've never really played around with the HDF and DHV settings because I have absolutely no idea when you should change these. The manual is not very helpful in this area.

Richard
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Old September 22nd, 2007, 09:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel Sedlak View Post
CORING: Can be helpful in dialing out image noise (that may be present in densely detailed objects).
Can specifically help reduce some of the “stairstepping” that can occur along diagonal lines.
So do you increase or decrease coring to help reduce?
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Old September 22nd, 2007, 09:59 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jerome Cloninger View Post
So do you increase or decrease coring to help reduce?

When you increase coring, it redcues the detail in these areas, thereby reducing the noise as well. That's the idea anyway. But I don't know what happens when you set coring to negative values.

Richard
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Old September 22nd, 2007, 10:14 PM   #10
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My recollection about HDF-L was that filtering was reduced, giving the appearance at first of sharper definition of fine details, and that Detail HOR/Vert Balance 4 did about the same thing for the other direction.

But when I used the Imatest software to measure the resolution of a test chart using those settings, what appeared as addtional detail and definition to the eye did not translate into higher resolution numbers to the software.

In the end, I went back to HDF-M and Detail Horz/Vert Bal - 0, to retain the organic look to the image. My concern was without the filtering of the default settings, you could potentially introduce artifacting from moire on vertical and horizontal lines.

So the option is there to explore your creative side as Pavel has done, and go with your intent.
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Old September 23rd, 2007, 01:18 PM   #11
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I prefer HDF M, DHV 0
(and I agree with Tom Roper - "In the end, I went back to HDF-M and Detail Horz/Vert Bal - 0")

when you look to my "first setting" (not second above with normal gama):
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...=81071&page=11
with cine2,
you can see, that this custom preset is better in lowlight then normal gama with +6dB (this cine2 CP with +12dB have smaller noise and have better brightness).
Normal gama with +12dB have a big noise (thus I can't use it).

cine2 isn't for good lighting only (I think this before like many others). I know now, that in lowlight is very good too.

Try this "cine2 CP" with +12dB and you see - it is useable.
(I hope that this help you for a best footage).

Thanks for your replies.
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