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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old November 9th, 2007, 12:11 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch View Post
Bob,

You do not need to shell out the money for Cineform. Premiere will edit your HDV footage, but depending on the power of your computer, you will have problems like scrubbing or previewing in real time. That is not Premiere's problem, that is merely a function of your computer not being able to handle HDV compression at a fast enough rate. If you captured uncompressed HD footage, your computer could play it back because it does not have to convert it all. But, HDV is highly compressed and needs a lot of computer power to uncompress it for play.

You can edit on another NLE with that same computer and you will have the same problem. Cineform is just an intermediate codec that allows you to do previews etc. in realtime. Then it is encoded back to HDV when you are finished.

Mike

Mike,

Being a long time Premiere User, since version 4 and have been literally testing Sony Vegas out for the past 2 weeks, as much as it pains me to say it as I have invested thousands of hours in using Premiere + a lot of money over the course of 8-9 years, Vegas playback of DV and HDV blows Premiere away, hands down. It took a lot for me to even download the trial, but I couldn't ignore all the raves and after my last let down with "out of memory" errors which left me high and dry, I gave Vegas a spin. Although different, the one thing that keeps me with it is the playback. The more I use Vegas, the more I like it, but the playback performance is unbelievable. Conducting a comparison, I brought in a DV clip, applied Levels, Curves, Color Correction, and Vegas was still playing back at full 24fps. I then added Magic Bullet effects and it still was performing like a champ, some stutter, but fantastic, not what I am use to. And this is all the while I'm tweaking settings while it's playing. Premiere simply cannot do this. Did the same test with the same clip in Premiere Pro 2 and it just chokes, it has worse playback with just Levels, Curves, and Color Correction than Vegas does with all of those effects and Magic Bullet. As far as HDV goes, I just got my XHA1 last week and haven't had much time to do testing, but I was able to bring in an HDV clip and apply the same effects above and have full 24fps playback in Preview-Half mode (no Magic Bullet). Haven't tried other modes yet, this is amazing, better performance with HDV in Vegas than DV in Premiere, whoa, something is wrong here. And this is without Cineform, just native m2t files. With cineform, my playback of said file is significantly better with effects heavy clips, usually 3-6 fps faster than the m2t. And get this, Vegas comes with Cineform. I'm no fanboy, but just my observations over the past 2 weeks, Vegas is one impressive app when it comes to it's playback engine, Adobe is doing something wrong in this department. Just my experience.

Kevin
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Old November 9th, 2007, 12:15 PM   #17
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slightly off topic but didn't Premiere 1.5 used to ship with Cineform as well? Why did they stop this? What changed? Bulk pricing or something?
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Old November 9th, 2007, 12:19 PM   #18
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slightly off topic but didn't Premiere 1.5 used to ship with Cineform as well? Why did they stop this? What changed? Bulk pricing or something?
Premiere 2.0 did ship with CineForm! I'm not sure about CS3 as I had my own Cineform installed first. I think it still does.

What version of Premiere were you using Kevin?

M
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Last edited by Mike Teutsch; November 9th, 2007 at 12:46 PM. Reason: 1.5 changed to 2.0
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Old November 9th, 2007, 12:27 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch View Post
Premiere 1.5 did ship with CineForm! I'm not sure about CS3 as I had my own Cineform installed first. I think it still does.

What version of Premiere were you using Kevin?

M
I think they just ship with the decoder? The actual paid version of Cineform is required for the real time effects and other goodies such as HDLink.

Carl
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Old November 9th, 2007, 12:31 PM   #20
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I think they just ship with the decoder? The actual paid version of Cineform is required for the real time effects and other goodies such as HDLink.

Carl
The CineForm that ships with Premiere is a normal version with less goodies. It still provided realtime scrubbing etc... At least mine did.

And, I'm sure if Vegas ships with the FULL version, it must cost several hundred to 500 more for the software too, as CineForm is not giving it away.

Mike
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Old November 9th, 2007, 12:41 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch View Post
Premiere 1.5 did ship with CineForm! I'm not sure about CS3 as I had my own Cineform installed first. I think it still does.

What version of Premiere were you using Kevin?

M
I currently use Premiere Pro 2.
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Old November 9th, 2007, 12:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Kevin Janisch View Post
I currently use Premiere Pro 2.
Premiere Pro 2 came with Cineform, was yours missing?

M
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Old November 9th, 2007, 01:09 PM   #23
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Mike do you use AIM or something? Would love to chat with a Cineform user in real time to ask some additional questions without tying up this thread about 24F and CS3. You can IM me on AIM via canmanjc
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Old November 9th, 2007, 01:11 PM   #24
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Premiere Pro 2 came with Cineform, was yours missing?

M
I'm sure it's there but I never got that far as I just got my XHA1 and have only done HDV tests in Vegas.
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Old November 9th, 2007, 03:20 PM   #25
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Mike do you use AIM or something? Would love to chat with a Cineform user in real time to ask some additional questions without tying up this thread about 24F and CS3. You can IM me on AIM via canmanjc
Email sent.

M
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Old November 11th, 2007, 09:34 AM   #26
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Email sent.

M
never got anything. Not sure why. Checked spam and such. Mind sending it to josh <at> simplethoughtproductions.com? Thanks...
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