Flaw in the Tripod mount area on the A1? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old November 7th, 2007, 06:37 AM   #16
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The 1/4" socket is a weakness in most all the 1/3" chip cameras, and you can't use them on a professional tripod, which is necessary if you want to use a heavy tripod for a teleprompter--bigger tripods have the standard 3/8" mount.

HOWEVER, the solution is the Canon tripod adapter plate. You remove the plate that has the cheesy socket and replace it using the 4 screws provided with the adapter.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...d_Adapter.html

The B&H info says it's for the XL2, but it's for all the cameras. And they don't show the plate it comes with to replace the 1/4" socket, but it'll be in the box. This tripod adapter plate is just like all the ones you get with bigger cameras, and it has the normal 3/8" sockets as well as the smaller 1/4" ones. It's about $130. I couldn't live without it, and I wouldn't have bought the XH A1 if Chris hadn't told me about it. It's a necessary part of the camera, in my opinion, if you ever use a teleprompter.

Still...you'd probably have to yank pretty hard on the camera, maybe pick it up by the handle a number of times when it's attached to the tripod, to bend that 1/4" socket out, I think.

Here's the plate on the Canon site:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...delSuppliesAct

Scroll down, it's on the lower right. You can see the part that attaches to the camera base with 4 screws.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 11:06 AM   #17
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Bill,

FYI: There is no damage to my camera. Not sure what led you to understand that. I'm just highlighting (what I think is) a flaw in the design that causes a camera shake with the slightest touch (like when using the zoom/focus preset buttons) etc.

You say
Quote:
You remove the plate that has the cheesy socket and replace it using the 4 screws provided with the adapter.
What plate is that?

Further, it's the mount on the camera that is flawed, if this adapter plate is going to be mounted to the camera using the same mount then that's not really going to eliviate the real issue now is it? Unluess the plate is long enough to reach all the way to the back of the camera. So does it reach the back of the camera?


Also, I have a Libec LS-55 tripod. Does it make sense to buy this adapter if the tripods I own have only the 1/4" socket?

I don't use a telepromtper, but would like to know what it's got to do with mounting the camera on a tripod if you don't mind explaining?

Thanks.

Shiv.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 11:54 AM   #18
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I use several tripods including Libec with the standard mount and have no shake at all. It does need to be tightened once it a while...they all do. Do you carry the camera with the tripod attached by the camera handle?

The adpater plate is good. I've use it on other cameras.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 11:57 AM   #19
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The tripod adapter plate comes with both the big plate that goes on the tripod, and a replacement plate for the one that comes on the camera with the small socket. You remove that plate and attach the new one. That then slides onto and locks into place on the adapter.

The reason for it is that it has the standard size 3/8" socket, which allows you to use it on a regular tripod, rather than the smaller ones that have 1/4" sockets (although it has 1/4" receptacles too, so you can actually use it with both).

So this is a solution if your 1/4" mounting receptacle is sticking up as you say. Mine does not do that, and the camera fits fine with no wobble on a 1/4" tripod head; I only bought the adapter because sometimes I need to use the camera on bigger tripods capable of holding a teleprompter. That would not be possible without the adapter plate, unless there was a heavy tripod with the 1/4" screw, and I've never seen any with one.

Another solution would be to simply order a new 1/4" plate to replace the one you have that is deformed. There are 4 screws that hold it in place. I'm confident Canon would replace it, because that is not normal. Personally, I'd rather buy a part, which couldn't cost much, than send the camera in to have it replaced.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 01:23 PM   #20
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Eric, Bill,

There is no damage to my camera or the plate on the camera :). It's the design of that area I'm talking about.

Essentially, the only support the camera really gets from a tripod is the small area (the plate you say I can have canon replace).

If this plate (on the camera) were flush with the bottom of the rest of the camera (and not jutting out 2mm or so), the camera would get a larger surface area of contact with the quick release plate of any tripod and therefore be a whole lot more stable.

If you look at the photograph with the side view you'll see. Or simple look at your camera with a tripod quick release plate mounted on the camera. You'll see that 3/4 of the quick release plate does not touch the camera at all. Therefore does not provide any support for stability.

Quote:
The tripod adapter plate comes with both the big plate that goes on the tripod, and a replacement plate for the one that comes on the camera with the small socket. You remove that plate and attach the new one. That then slides onto and locks into place on the adapter.
Ok, it looks like this might actually solve the disign issue. Looking at the picture on their (and B&H) site, it looks like when the small plate is inserted into the larger plate, the top (as you look at the picture) is flush with the rest of the larger plate and that in turn means that the full top portion of the plate is in contact with the bottom of the camera.

Take a look at new photo I uploaded it will hopefully highlight what I'm talking about.
Attached Thumbnails
Flaw in the Tripod mount area on the A1?-canonxha1sideviewshowingairgap_lr.jpg  
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Old November 7th, 2007, 01:35 PM   #21
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Shiv,
I use the A1 with a Libec 38 and have no problems with it being loose or camera shake. My plate has the same gap as in your photo. However, I mount my plate much further forward on the camera. Essentially, my plate is flush with the front part of the camera which seems to give me plenty of contact area between the camera and plate. You may want to try moving your plate forward, so the gap is lessened.
--JL
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Old November 7th, 2007, 01:43 PM   #22
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Josh,

I moved the plate back only for the purpose of the photo :). But even then you can see that there is a gap in the front.

Technically, no matter where you mount the plate the camera only gets supported by the saurface area shown in the picuture. Moving the plate forwards or backwards doesn't change that.

In fact if it does, it only proves my point :)
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Old November 7th, 2007, 02:48 PM   #23
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Paul,

I do you rails to support the Letus, but guess what? The camera is mounted on the rails and the same flaw persists! So we're back to square one no?

Bill,

Would it be possible for you to post a picture with the adapter mounted on the camera (a picture similar to the one I took, where you basically have to angle the shot in such as way as to see the air gap).

Or if you could confirm for me that when the adapter (along with its own plate) is mounted on the camera there is no air gap between the camera and the rest of the structure, I'd appreciate it tremendously.

Shiv.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 05:15 PM   #24
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I see your point with that picture. I didn't really notice that ledge before.
My tripod plates fit within that surface area and are quite stable.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 05:30 PM   #25
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Eric,

Thanks Eric for "seeing my point".

I'm assuming you use the adapter like Bill does when you say
Quote:
My tripod plates fit within that surface area and are quite stable.
Or am I reading that wrong?

Also, I'm not saying that the camera is not stable. What I'm saying is it could have been a lot more stable and one could actually touch the camera, push buttons etc. while recording without getting any (and I mean any) camera shake.

If the adapter (due to its design) removes that air gap, then I think the solution is to buy the adapter. I'm assuming that with the adapter one can still use the "regular" tripods with their 1/4" mounting screws? Can someone confirm this too please?

I didn't know that that plate can be removed. I found this out after reading Bill's post. So the other option might be to get a plate made for this purpose (if the adapter doesn't solve this problem).

Shiv.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 05:34 PM   #26
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Shiv,
Have you tried filling the gap with a piece of foam or rubber? If you sandwich it in tightly it may solve your problem.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 05:39 PM   #27
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I can post a photo when I get back in town this weekend. I see what you mean now; I thought you meant the socket was somehow pulled away from the camera. I guess I didn't notice that since I only mounted it one time without the adapter plate. Still, there shouldn't be any wiggle with that arrangement. Could it be that the bolt coming from your tripod is a bit too long?
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Old November 7th, 2007, 05:40 PM   #28
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Hi Shiv,

That nominal 2" square pad around the 1/4" screw should be more than adequate to give you a stable plate mount. The camera in itself weighs in at 5 lbs and the arrangement should carry about 11 lbs wobble free. If your loading up the camera with lots of extra gear then I feel Bill Pryors tripod adaptor fix would be the way to go.

My concern is that you are having 'wobble/shake' with just a little more than the basic camera load. Are you sure the actual thread section is not damaged or something is loose in the mount/plate arrangement?

I have my A1 on a Miller DS10, plate mounted with the same overhang you show in your images and it's rock solid with gun mike and light attached..no shake no wobble. The screw tightened with a coin just firmly and checked regularly.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 05:42 PM   #29
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Josh,

Actually I use rubber strips both in the front and back because the front needs it too and so I move the plate to the front so I can use a larger rubber strip and it doesn't slip off.

I know this works wonders and so that brought me to this post. Canon should have just designed that area better.

Because I switch between the Steadicam Merlin and a tripod I have to redo the rubber strips part each time when going back to the tripod. And it's just a pain and one more thing to do and not misplace the strips etc. But now I'm thinking I should stick the rubber strips to the camera using something that I can remove easily when I need to (like when it comes time to sell the camera).

Shiv.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 06:22 PM   #30
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Bill,

Thanks I appreciate you doing this for me.

Malcom,

I'm positive there is nothing wrong with the camera's mounting area, threads, etc. I carry a small wide mouth screwdriver and so can tighten the screw as much as needed.

Do you touch the camera while recording. For instance do you use the position zoom/focus preset while shooting? Or take a photo while a shoot is in progress? You'll notice a shake if you're zoomed in fully is you try the above.

It's not like there is a shake all by itself. Heck I can use my $80 tripod and leave the camera alone and shoot just fine without any shake or wobble :).

All Im saying is that if the design were better, I could use my $900 dollar tripod (which is solid as a rock) and not have to treat the camera as "hands off" while shooting.

One tends to adjust one's shooting style in order to circumvent certain short commings. I shot my first two videos on my $80 tripod. There were no pans or tilts and I even had to account for the shake soon after pressing the record button, so I'd say "action" a few seconds after or when possible use the remote to start/stop recording. The storyboard revolved around the limitations of my tripod.

After having used the rubber strips and finding that the camera is now truely rock solid, I've begun to incorporate racking focus (with the Letus) into the way I shoot. I don't even think about having to be careful (with or without rails).
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