25F Recording issue at DVinfo.net

Petre Nicolescu · November 9th, 2007, 05:56 AM

I am concerned about one thing. When I record in 25F (PAL) with my Canon A1, the movement on the camera's display looks stepped. Is this a camera issue? Is it normal? Or is only the movement on the display acting like that?!
Thank you!

Petri Kaipiainen · November 9th, 2007, 06:18 AM

In 50i you shoot 50 frames/sec, of course picture looks smoother.

in 25f there are only 25 frames/sec, picture becomes jerky. But that's what you want, no?

Petre Nicolescu · November 9th, 2007, 07:32 AM

Thank you for the reply.
I obviously don't want the motion to look THAT jerky as it is now. I've never seen any movie with such stepped movement.
I don't know how to explain better what I see on the display. Is very similar with recording in 50i at 1/12 shutter speed, maybe a bit smoother.

Thanks.

Richard Hunter · November 9th, 2007, 09:36 AM

Hi Petre. 25F will have intrinsically more judder compared with 50i, so you need to shoot accordingly if you want to use this and get good results. For example, fast pans or fast subject motion across the field of view will show judder. So pan slowly, or track moving subjects with the camera.

Use 1/50s shutter to get the closest to supposed film look (which is actually 1/48s at 24fps).

Also, the LCD screen is not the best way to judge what the final output is going to be like. You really need to render some footage in your output format and watch it on the intended viewing device, whether TV, computer screen or whatever.

One other point. Many people don't actually like the results they get using 25p, and prefer to shoot interlaced video instead. Nothing wrong with that, and it also gives better quality if you have to apply slow motion to the footage.

Richard

Petre Nicolescu · November 10th, 2007, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Hunter

One other point. Many people don't actually like the results they get using 25p, and prefer to shoot interlaced video instead. Nothing wrong with that, and it also gives better quality if you have to apply slow motion to the footage.

Richard

Thank you very much for the reply and for the tips.
Cheers.

Bill Pryor · November 11th, 2007, 08:17 AM

I'm in NTSCland and shot 24f. The movement in the LCD and the viewfinder looks jerky, but it doesn't look that way in the computer or on TV screens after editing.

You do want to make sure your shutter speed is correct. In your case it should be 1/50. The NTSC version of the camera defaults to 1/24 the first time you switch to 24F. It could be that your camera has defaulted to 1/25. If so, make sure you change it to 1/50 (1/48 for NTSC).

Just for your information, the XL2 also looks jerky in the viewfinder when shooting 24p, but it is fine on a real monitor. I have no problems at all with the 24p motion. I edit in FCP, capturing in the HDV 1080 24p setup and editing in a 23.98 timeline. When a show is finished, I export the QT, which is still HD, and take it into Compressor for the conversion to SD for the DVD.

Malcolm OBrien · November 11th, 2007, 04:02 PM

Hi Petre,
I am in PAL land and as Bill flagged the shutter does default to 1/25 when first selecting 25F. I spin the shutter wheel up to 1/50 and the results are fine.

The pan speeds you can get away with do have slower limits especially toward the telephoto end and hand held needs care as you would expect. With that in mind on a 1080 full HD screen the image to me is as smooth as 50i.

November 9th, 2007, 05:56 AM	#1
Petre Nicolescu New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge, United Kingdom Posts: 17	25F Recording issue I am concerned about one thing. When I record in 25F (PAL) with my Canon A1, the movement on the camera's display looks stepped. Is this a camera issue? Is it normal? Or is only the movement on the display acting like that?! Thank you!

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November 9th, 2007, 06:18 AM	#2
Petri Kaipiainen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Espoo Finland Posts: 380	In 50i you shoot 50 frames/sec, of course picture looks smoother. in 25f there are only 25 frames/sec, picture becomes jerky. But that's what you want, no?

November 9th, 2007, 07:32 AM	#3
Petre Nicolescu New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge, United Kingdom Posts: 17	Thank you for the reply. I obviously don't want the motion to look THAT jerky as it is now. I've never seen any movie with such stepped movement. I don't know how to explain better what I see on the display. Is very similar with recording in 50i at 1/12 shutter speed, maybe a bit smoother. Thanks.

November 9th, 2007, 09:36 AM	#4
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	Hi Petre. 25F will have intrinsically more judder compared with 50i, so you need to shoot accordingly if you want to use this and get good results. For example, fast pans or fast subject motion across the field of view will show judder. So pan slowly, or track moving subjects with the camera. Use 1/50s shutter to get the closest to supposed film look (which is actually 1/48s at 24fps). Also, the LCD screen is not the best way to judge what the final output is going to be like. You really need to render some footage in your output format and watch it on the intended viewing device, whether TV, computer screen or whatever. One other point. Many people don't actually like the results they get using 25p, and prefer to shoot interlaced video instead. Nothing wrong with that, and it also gives better quality if you have to apply slow motion to the footage. Richard

November 11th, 2007, 08:17 AM	#6
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I'm in NTSCland and shot 24f. The movement in the LCD and the viewfinder looks jerky, but it doesn't look that way in the computer or on TV screens after editing. You do want to make sure your shutter speed is correct. In your case it should be 1/50. The NTSC version of the camera defaults to 1/24 the first time you switch to 24F. It could be that your camera has defaulted to 1/25. If so, make sure you change it to 1/50 (1/48 for NTSC). Just for your information, the XL2 also looks jerky in the viewfinder when shooting 24p, but it is fine on a real monitor. I have no problems at all with the 24p motion. I edit in FCP, capturing in the HDV 1080 24p setup and editing in a 23.98 timeline. When a show is finished, I export the QT, which is still HD, and take it into Compressor for the conversion to SD for the DVD.

November 11th, 2007, 04:02 PM	#7
Malcolm OBrien New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Blue Mountains NSW Australia Posts: 15	Hi Petre, I am in PAL land and as Bill flagged the shutter does default to 1/25 when first selecting 25F. I spin the shutter wheel up to 1/50 and the results are fine. The pan speeds you can get away with do have slower limits especially toward the telephoto end and hand held needs care as you would expect. With that in mind on a 1080 full HD screen the image to me is as smooth as 50i.