Which Would Be Better? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 1st, 2007, 03:00 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 288
Which Would Be Better?

I am about to get money for the holidays (thats my only income being I'm 15)
and i would like to know your guys opinion on what would be a better buy.
I can get a geardear mattebox kit, with french flags, sidewings, and a rod system for $628, or i can get a
http://www.cinetactics.com/Page.bok?template=c_mb125h
with a
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...icrophone.html
I'm planning on shooting a movie soon, script and all and I already have some mics (drum mics though) that i figured i might just be able to set up around the room and into my mackie than camera.
What do you guys think?

Also, does anyone know if the rods are needed for an A1 from geardear?
__________________
Loren Simons
Loren Simons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 04:22 PM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Little Rock
Posts: 1,383
Are you getting lens flair that the standard lens shade won't block?
Or do you have some special 4x4 filters that you must use for a shot?

Just wondering what your point for purchasing a low end matte box is?
David W. Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 05:39 PM   #3
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
If you're getting lens flair, you can buy a French flag for under a hundred bucks, like this: http://www.filmtools.com/frenchflag2.html
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 06:06 PM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank
Posts: 1,811
I also ask if you are going to be using 4x4 filters, or if you need to stop lens flare.

I have a gear dear matte box, and I wouldn't recommend it. Its huge, made of a foamish product, difficult to work with and so forth. It looks impressive all set up from a distance. It's not real practical for the kind of shooting the XH-A1 can do best.

If you want to use some kind of filter system, with graduated color and graduated ND filters, I suggest the Cokin system. For fairly low cost you can get a nice system that will give you good results for what you are doing now and will give you some experience for when you move up to a big pro camera and glass filters and a pro matte box such as a Chrosziel. Note of caution, since the Cokin filters aren't glass, they are easy to scratch. But for low cost you can get some nice effects that would be cost prohibitive in glass filters.

If the only filter you need is a polarizer, with the XH-A1 and most shooting, I think a circular screw-on type will give the most useful, and for a much less expensive cost. If you are shooting outside in bright light, you may also need a Neutral Density filter, in addition to the camera filters, though for most things the camera ND filters should work fine

What kind of shooting are you going to be doing. Any kind of matte box may be a problem if you are doing something where you need a small and mobile camera.

A good rule is to spend the money on things that will make the biggest difference in your video. Here are a couple of examples:
--Professional Softbox (like a lowel Rifa) and a couple of support lights (like Lowel pro lights) if you are going to be doing documentary interviews and traveling around doing them.
--A Steadicam Merlin if you are going to be doing some action stuff, or any shooting where nice moving shots will add a lot of value.
--A tripod arm mount zoom controller, if you are shooting sports or stage shows from a fixed location.
--Boom pole and softie, if you are shooting outside with a shotgun (inside you don't need a sofie, for example.)

You definitely need a decent microphone suited to the kind of shooting you will do.

Probably a matte box is not the best investment at this point (and, again, remember a single 4x4 filter costs $100-$400), considering other things that would help your video more.

My advice is to consider what you are going to shoot and don't spend a penny on something that won't make a significant improvement in you video.

The microphone you link gives nice results in its class. Are you shooting outside? If so, the rycote that comes in the package would be fine.
Jack Walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 08:26 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 288
I'm going to be shooting mostly inside. The main reason i was going to buy the matte box was for the filters. I really wanted to hear from an owner of a geardear already, and thats what i got, plus more! thanks to all. I think i will go for the boom kit and with the extra maybe pick up a battery or something. If anyone has any opinions or other ideas of something that will make my general shooting better, than it would be greatly appreciated. Also, i know i was being yelled at for thinking about this earlier, but for 500 bucks the RedRock seems like it would be a good idea yes? coming from slr photographer and using mainly manuel focus anyways, using that should increase the look of my films? Again, constructive criticism is very helpful thanks you guys!
__________________
Loren Simons
Loren Simons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 11:12 PM   #6
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank
Posts: 1,811
The XH-A1 is an exceptionally versatile and high quality camera all on its own.

I strongly advise to see what you can do with it alone (plus sound). Learn to get the right exposure in different situations, learn how to make custom settings to get a different look and feel for your shots or short film.

The Redrock offers a somewhat one dimensional addition of "film-type" look with somewhat limited DOF. However, there are outstsanding filmmakers who shoot with wide angle lens and thus do excellent work without using -- I believe overused now -- limited DOF concept.

I think the trend is to more naturalistic, fluid stories. All extensive use of switching DOF does is draw attention to itself when the viewer starts to get engrossed in the characters and the story.

With the XH-A1 you can try DOF techniques by using reasonable telephoto and separating the subject by a reasonable distance from the background. With preset buttons on the camera you can jump focus from one subject in the foreground to one in the background and get the DOF effect.

However, there is much to learn with the XH-A1 on its own, that something like the RedRock would just get in the way of at this point... in my opinion.

An excellent film that gives an overview of how many different filmmakers approach making film is "Paris, Je t'aime." I highly recommend watching this. The 2nd DVD that comes with it also has a behind-the-scenes short on all the filmmakers (about 16, 17 or 18). This movie will give you an idea of things to t try with you XH-A1 without adding any conteraptions to it.

Spend your money on essentials that enhance the basic camera, and on essentials that can be used with other cameras.

That's my take. Concentrate on the film you are going to make and work backwards to what you absolutely need -- rather than picking out equipment and trying to use it. The end result will be much better, maybe even superb.
Jack Walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2007, 09:39 AM   #7
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
I agree with that!

The XH A1 has such a range of controls that you can get the look you want with no need for filters, except for certain situations where you might want some special filter, like a polarizer or something. You can use 72mm threaded filters and probably go up to two filters before getting any vignetting at wide angles.

One reason for having a small camera like the XH A1 is because it is small and lightweight, easy to hand hold and use in situations where bigger cameras might be problematic. When you add a matte box and rails, you diminish that capability, and when you add one of the spinning ground glass adapters and still camera lenses, you need even longer rails, and now you're totally stuck on a tripod. Also, these adapters, while they do diminish depth of field, also present their own set of issues during production. Good lighting, good composition, good audio and a decent concept and acting will do a lot more for you than gizmos hanging out on the end of your lens. The money you spend on all that stuff would buy some very nice lights.
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2007, 11:44 AM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 157
Hey. Its cool to hear about a kid being so involved with a creative endeavor. Here's my two cents. Are you more interested in being a director or a DP? If you're more interested in directing, then get everything you can to help you with that. Go take acting classes, read books on directing, try to get on set doing anything, write to your heroes.

If you're more interested in DP'ing then get all the hot equipment and learn it all. Start shooting on film soon, because digital still comprises about 5% of the film industry. Study lighting techniques, blah blah blah. You know what I'm saying. Just don't get caught up in the buy-buy-buy game and forget the art.
Steve Yager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2007, 01:27 PM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Little Rock
Posts: 1,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Yager View Post
Hey. Start shooting on film soon, because digital still comprises about 5% of the film industry..
I think it is a mistake to advise a 15 year old who's only source of income is money from their parents, to start shooting film soon!
David W. Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2007, 04:03 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 288
Id love to shoot film! but the one problem, the price to convert the film to digital for editing AND well just the camera themselves are thousands and thousands right? I'll admit that yes i do get caught up in the buybuybuy game, i even buybuybuy books, but neglect to read them, ahahha. The reason i bought the camera was not for the lightweight and versatility, it was for the price and quality. I would much rather have a huge camera that shot something like true HD or something like that, but, i do love my A1 =D. Thanks for all the opinions and thoughts, i think I'm going to scour my dads work for all their old stuff they dont use since they have to switch to HD anyways, there should be alot of stuff just left un-needed.
I just bought a manfrotto 503HDV with a nice pair of legs and got a gift card to the place for something like 50 bucks, so i think im gona save my money, cash out my direct boxes, and than get a nice senhieser boom, and start reading those books ;) (If anyones intrested in a countryman type 85 box PM me, ill prob end up throwing it in the classified soon enough)
Thanks for all your help guys! its really nice to get an opinion from people besides the usual broadcast crew i talk to =D
__________________
Loren Simons
Loren Simons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2007, 07:59 PM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by David W. Jones View Post
I think it is a mistake to advise a 15 year old who's only source of income is money from their parents, to start shooting film soon!
Like kodak wouldn't like to sponsor a kid with a good idea? Listen Loren, you can get a lot for free if you ask the right people. Especially being so young, people want to encourage you. Don't let the cost of something stop you. Just find a way to do it. Of course, only shoot something on film if you're ready. Digital is a good tool to practice on for sure. But don't make the mistake of thinking you can't do something just because it costs more money.
Steve Yager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2007, 11:06 PM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 288
Never even thought of that whole sponsor thing=D. I do know alot of people in the industry, half unaware that im into filming. I think what i'd plan on doing is shooting a good material with the best quality i can produce, than just get it out there. That arises another question that will prob be thrown into another thread but just kinda random. Being the pessimistic person i am, is there something i would need to do to sort of copy right my script basically? so if the movie gets around no one can re-shoot it without my permission? that is if people eve like it. ahahaha
__________________
Loren Simons
Loren Simons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2007, 12:43 AM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren Simons View Post
Never even thought of that whole sponsor thing=D. I do know alot of people in the industry, half unaware that im into filming. I think what i'd plan on doing is shooting a good material with the best quality i can produce, than just get it out there. That arises another question that will prob be thrown into another thread but just kinda random. Being the pessimistic person i am, is there something i would need to do to sort of copy right my script basically? so if the movie gets around no one can re-shoot it without my permission? that is if people eve like it. ahahaha
Yeah, man, make sure everyone knows what you're up to (in a nice unannoying way of course). That way when you come to them with a favor or question they'll be up on what you're doing. Also, they'll think of you for things you could do for them or potential learning experiences. As far as protecting your script, just get it registered with the WGA. It's an easy process. Go to the website for more details. Don't bother registering anything that isn't ready to shoot though. And here's the thing man, when you send your script off somewhere they'll even make you sign something that says you can't sue them if they make something similar to your script. You're going to get your stuff stolen now and then, just the nature of the business. But if someone is stealing your stuff, then you know you're on the right track. Sounds awful, but its the truth. It'll happen to you at least once. Don't worry about that know though. It's all part of the process. You're too young to be worrying about this crap yet. Just get a good lawyer when the time comes and you'll be fine. Another tip, get into or start a good writer's group. The worst thing you can do is shoot something that isn't ready yet. Just because it's done doesn't mean that you shouldn't re-write it 10 times. Or more. Wait till its perfect. Especially if you're showing it to people outside your writer's group. Anyway, I've said a mouthful. Good luck. You're ahead of the curve. Just keep at it.
Steve Yager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2007, 02:35 AM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West Africa
Posts: 255
Quote:
Hey. Start shooting on film soon, because digital still comprises about 5% of the film industry..
By the time he is old enough to direct, everyone will be shooting movies on video (HD).
Seun Osewa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2007, 02:45 AM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seun Osewa View Post
By the time he is old enough to direct, everyone will be shooting movies on video (HD).
Very doubtful. Even as they improve digital technology, film is also being improved. Ask any working film industry DP in LA Loren, they'll tell you what's up.
Steve Yager is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:21 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network