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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
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Old February 17th, 2008, 08:16 PM   #1
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Which solution for 24p project under Flos in Europe?

The project is being shot in Eastern Europe and the U.S. It will delivered on NTSC DVD.

The camera is an NTSC XH-A1. It can have the PAL upgrade which would allow booting it as a PAL camera.

Sections have already been shot in 60i HDV.

Some sections yet to be shot will be 24F on the DVD. The question is whether it would be better to shoot these -- where there are old 50hz flourescent lights -- in which of these:
1. 24F at 1/100 shutter speed.
2. 25F at 1/50 shutter speed -- then slowing down to 24p in post. (after getting the PAL upgrade)

The problem with the 1/100 is staccato motion and the loss of 1 stop where light is at a minimum.

Is there any other option?

Finally, why isn't there a software upgrade to allow the XH-A1 to shoot at all shutter speeds in either NTSC or PAL. Projects are too often international for companies to continue to assume we live on separate inaccessible islands. I don't know of one, but is there a competing product that makes it necessary to "protect" the functionality of the XH-A1?
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Old February 17th, 2008, 08:38 PM   #2
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Hi Jack I don't know about the ntsc version 24F but 25F at 1/50 would work.
Are u doing a documenatary or shooting indoors (studio). I did a commercial last year and a edited a short Both where shot with Sony HDV Z1-- PAL DVmode 1/50. Both where shot under flouresent light at 60hz . No flickering at all.
I guess it would work with the PAL version of the XHA1.Will check it out tommorrow.
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Old February 17th, 2008, 08:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everts Alredjo View Post
Hi Jack I don't know about the ntsc version 24F but 25F at 1/50 would work.
Are u doing a documenatary or shooting indoors (studio). I did a commercial last year and a edited a short Both where shot with Sony HDV Z1-- PAL DVmode 1/50. Both where shot under flouresent light at 60hz . No flickering at all.
I guess it would work with the PAL version of the XHA1.Will check it out tommorrow.
Thanks for the comments.
We are doing a documentary. Two locations are Lithuania and Bulgaria. Inside the theaters are a lot of old flourescent lights. (There are also the big lights that take 10 minutes before they come on. I don't know if they flicker.

I have successfully shot already at 1080i and 1/100. However the next work we will do will be shot at 24F (or 25F is necessary to get the right shutter speed to eliminate flicker).

I want to eliminate any possibility of flicker because nothing we shoot can be repeated. We either get it or it's lost.

Late in the year, for the same project, I will be shooting a stage performance in 24F or 25F. I don't know if there is any danger of flicker from theater lighting. If there is I suppose it's best to shoot 25F and slow it down in post. Otherwise, we could shoot 24F.

If you shot under 50 hz flourexcents with 1/60 shutter and got no flicker, were these newer lights with very high on and off frequency rate?
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Old February 18th, 2008, 04:30 PM   #4
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If you shot under 50 hz flourexcents with 1/60 shutter and got no flicker, were these newer lights with very high on and off frequency rate?[/QUOTE]

No new lights . In Surinam we have 110v as our standard electricity. Tv signals here are Ntsc. Flourescent lights 6O hz.
But I mostly do PAL work.Lets say 50 percent of my work is done with PAL
And the short was shot under 6ohz flour lights with 1/50 shutter not the other way around.No studio kits were used
You could also try 1/25 shutter with the PAL version.

If you are going to shoot 24f and still get flickering.Try a video limiter in post
to reduce the luma which causes the flickering.

Late in the year, for the same project, I will be shooting a stage performance in 24F or 25F. I don't know if there is any danger of flicker from theater lighting. If there is I suppose it's best to shoot 25F and slow it down in post. Otherwise, we could shoot 24F.[/QUOTE]


(There are also the big lights that take 10 minutes before they come on. I don't know if they flicker.[/QUOTE]

Last year I edited footage that was shot in New York (World theatre) ,TheNetherlands . (some odd play) and here in Suriname. Local theatre .The material was Ntsc and or PAL no flickering from any theatre lights.
Is there anyway that you can test this before you go to Europe ?
And if you can't test it I would just upgrade the camera (s)
.That way when your in Europe you got more choises
and a better chance of getting those clean flickerless money shot.
Besides you will enjoy 25 F but that's another thread.
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Old February 18th, 2008, 05:00 PM   #5
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Everts,

Thank you for the detailed answer.

I can test (and have tested) shooting under 60hz here, but I don't know how I would test under 50hz.

I agree that I should probably just get the upgrade and have all options available. Then I can also try 24F and 25F under fluorescents here and see if there is any effect. The upgrade seems expensive, but less so when considered in context of the overall project.

I saw someone a couple of nights ago that is using 24F on the XH-A1 in both the U.S. and in Russia on stage shows and has no problem. So that probably isn't an issue.

And it just occurred to me that I can put DVRack on the laptop I use. I could then check on the spot if any of the lights cause problems at the framerate and shutter speed I'm using. I'll try this tomorrow here and see what happens.

I should note that I received the camera a few days before we made the first trip. The opportunity to shoot came up at the last minute, and I ordered the XH-A1 based on user reports. I started shooting with about 2 minutes practice and thorough reading of the manual. To be safe I shot 60i HDV at 1/100 using exposure lock and manually adjusting the aperture, leaving the camera on autofocus. To my happy surprise, everything came out looking fantastic. We now want the next segments in 24 progressive, and the tests we have done look very good. I have been very impressed with the XH-A1
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Old February 18th, 2008, 05:25 PM   #6
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Me likey XHA1 to.
Hope everything goes well.
By the way when you upgrade , The camera gets a second head. Sort a like dual mechanism. So there is no software or firmware upgrade .
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