TrueColor configuration for XH A1 - Page 4 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 22nd, 2008, 11:30 PM   #46
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 806
You know, it's interesting to me. I would be freaked out completely if I came home from a wedding with that footage in any capacity. But I think that once I messed with it in post, it might yeild acceptable results. I am scared to death because I have a wedding next weekend which is the first of 10 in a row that I am going to need to shoot with this cam, and I just don't know where I'm going with it yet. I have had it for 3 weeks, and this is as far as I have gotten... gulp.
Bill
Bill Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 02:04 AM   #47
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 138
Great test footage, Bill!

Let's hope the bride doesn't do any jumping jacks;-) Were you shooting progressive? With everything moving slowly in a wedding, would you consider shooting 24p (24f) with 1/48 or even 1/24? The HV20 would cut in well in 24p, too.

I agree that raising blacks should improve the low light situations. Bill, it's hard to tell how underexposed some of the shots are. Instead of using a high gain setting, try bringing the levels up in your NLE. Let us know how it works for you.

I was surprised how similar the HV20 full auto compared to TrueColor. I've done too much color correcting trying to get my HV20 and XH A1 to match, especially under tungsten.

I forgot why everyone in Alaska has a wedding anniversary during the last 2 weeks in June until I watched your video, Bill. I never see green grass and leaves until June 15! Although The World Ice Art Championships have concluded, the ice sculptures haven't melted yet.

Good luck on your wedding season!
__________________
After years of lurking, I finally made the mistake of opening my mouth.
Doug Lange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 05:21 AM   #48
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 3,884
So which preset is the one without the blue cast?

Also, just wondering if anyone has tried this on skintones?
Peter Jefferson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 08:24 AM   #49
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 806
WEll,
I brought in those clips into Vegas and raised the levels, and lowered the blacks. The Truecolor went grain crazy, where the first 2 settings which are optimized with NR settings adjusted very well. I need to sort this all out before next weekend. Gulp.
Bill
Bill Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 08:26 AM   #50
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV United States
Posts: 361
Which clips wedding stuff or lowlight?
__________________
Lonnie Bell
mamas boy productions
Las Vegas, NV
Lonnie Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 08:39 AM   #51
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 806
lowlight...
Bill Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 08:48 AM   #52
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rock Hill, S.C.
Posts: 57
TrueColor outdoors

I had gone out two days ago to check out some waterfalls. I did a little shooting there to see how the TrueColor preset looked to me. I had done some test shooting with it the day before outside my house, but I wanted a more natural seeing to see what I thought. At the falls, I used "FACTORY", "AC PREF1", "PANALOOK", and "TrueColor" with no filters except built-in ND and manual white balance.

After I got back from the falls, I reviewed the footage and noticed the the TrueColor did unfortunately have a slight blue cast. The waterfall had a more blue cast than the other presets, but more telling were the greens. The leaves just weren't right, they looked more green-blue. While we were there, I got my wife to take some images with her Canon XTi for comparison. These were a reference for the color. So between our memory and the images from the SLR, I feel that the blue is defiantly the thing that is off.

I think the preset could be very good and accurate if the blue cast effect and blacks could be worked out. I will readily admit that I don't have the knowledge to do this, but would hope that someone who had the skills and time would tackle this preset. It is just so close to being a new standard. I really like idea of having a workflow that allows me to capture the footage neutrally, then give it the look I want in post. I have used "VIVIDRGB" in the past (with a lower color gain), but I've come to think it looks artificial. At this time "PANALOOK" is preset I find is the most useful for now, but I think that a neutral preset would be the best. As a side note, I do not believe "FACTORY" is neutral. Overall it looks too warm to me.
Christopher Neville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 09:00 AM   #53
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV United States
Posts: 361
Personal taste, but I think 12db is too noisy to begin with. And then trying to CC it in post showing mucho grain doesn't surprise me...

May I suggest going back to your den where you shot "lowlight", turn on your practicals (tv and what not) and just try comparing 3db and 6db with TrueColor.

Then do the same test with True Color but adjust the blacks so they are not quite so pressed (less Black). Yes it will still be darker than the VX, but I think the colors are way more more full and rich than the VX, and "it is an accurate image of a dark den". But now with almost no noise.

Just my opinion - Lonnie
__________________
Lonnie Bell
mamas boy productions
Las Vegas, NV
Lonnie Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 09:05 AM   #54
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV United States
Posts: 361
There was an admitted error on the True Color setting, there's been suggestions on what to change to correct the "blue". And even Steven Dempsey, author of Vividrgb noticed the blacks are too crushed.

I personally think somewhere between True and Vivid lies a great lowlight solution with only 3db of gain that'll still be cinematic and full of non-noisy rich colors...
__________________
Lonnie Bell
mamas boy productions
Las Vegas, NV
Lonnie Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 09:47 AM   #55
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV United States
Posts: 361
Dennis,
Tomorrow is my day to put the A1 through some lowlight tests, but I have a technical question... when you are adjusting presets in the camera menu's, and while hooked up to a monitor or computer (on Location), do you get instant realtime feedback with each click of an adjustment?

and if so, i'm assuming most single clicks within a parameter are so subtle, you probably have to go from one extreme to the other just to see what you are looking for (or what this particular button is adjusting) to begin with... is this accurate or make sense?

thanks,
Lonnie
__________________
Lonnie Bell
mamas boy productions
Las Vegas, NV
Lonnie Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:04 AM   #56
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone View Post
Bill, check your WB again and the settings, there is no blue cast in TC, it's made to be as neutral as possible.

Let me know...
Paolo, the only way I've found to get a correct WB with this preset is to use a warm card... well of course short of tweaking the preset, which I may do once I can find the time.

It seems others have encountered the slight blue cast as well. So I know it's not my eyes getting funky :)
Bill Busby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:23 AM   #57
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kerala, India
Posts: 93
Yes you get real time changes on your monitor

rajiv
Rajiv Attingal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:29 AM   #58
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV United States
Posts: 361
Thank you Rajiv... yes I just started playing a little more seriously and I realized while you look at the menu of parameter preset changes, then select one to adjust, the camera intentionally loses the menu grid, so you can view the changes on the little lcd while adjusting... good stuff!

Now to hook it up to a larger monitor and play :)

Thanks for getting back,
Lonnie
__________________
Lonnie Bell
mamas boy productions
Las Vegas, NV
Lonnie Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:40 AM   #59
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 288
I don't really know what I am doing with this yet or whether I have compromised the goal of Truecolor by trying this, but setting white balance to 6000 K certainly gets rid of the blue bias. The granite cliffs, pines, and late winter colors outside my window end up looking pretty good.

Pat
Pat Reddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:12 PM   #60
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 916
First of all guys, make sure that you check your preset because it was corrected a day after being posted. Pat, setting white balance to 6000K on a sunny day with blue sky sounds about right where it should be. White balance using a DSC chart is as accurate as it gets, so Paolo's WB was almost certainly correct during testing. This showed in my own tests with the Ambi2 where I white balanced to the rear projection screen itself (about 3200K). The blacks in this preset are crushed, and I have not attempted to pull detail in post....there is some room there for tweaking for sure.

Connecting the camera to a monitor is a great way to play with presets, but don't forget that dynamic contrast and calibration are important. Using a program like OnLocation (on one of the newer 1920x1200 pixel laptops) which displays color bars and has a blue function will allow you to calibrate the display reasonably well.

Bill, my one suggestion would be to check with Patrick Moreau over at stillmotion.ca as they've been using 2 or 3 XH-A1s extensively over the last year for primarily wedding work. They've got a long list of awards using the XH-A1 with our Brevis adapter. The XH-A1 in low light is noisy and is at 12db, in my opinion, terrible. Definitely look at using NR1 in your preset, or adding it to this one. It will have no effect at all on color, exposure, or WB. Don't use NR2 unless your subjects are motionless.
Dennis Wood is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:58 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network