Can the Canon XH-A1 accept line-in from a mixer? at DVinfo.net

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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old April 7th, 2008, 12:11 PM   #1
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Can the Canon XH-A1 accept line-in from a mixer?

Hello,

I've read in this forum a report of a problem with the Canon XH-A1 accepting line-in from a mixer. The person writing said that "with line in on the camera results in too low a signal". His workaround had been to add a 50dB pad to his mixer's line-out and send it to the camer's XLR set at mic. My mixer can send out either mic or line, so my solution, if this is a problem, would be to set my mixer at mic-out.

But before I do that I'd like some confirmation that this is a problem with the camera (not just the problem one guy was facing with his camera). I've called Canon support and they have no information that this is a problem. I've also called my dealer, who says they have sold hundreds of XH-A1s, and they say they have never heard of this.

Can anyone offer advice?

Thanks.

John
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Old April 7th, 2008, 12:41 PM   #2
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It really depends on the mixer you are getting a feed from and how you are attaching it..... many variables. I've never had a problem getting a line from a mixer, but you gotta set the camera correctly.
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Old April 7th, 2008, 01:01 PM   #3
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Hi John.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Whiteway View Post
Hello,

Can anyone offer advice?

Thanks.

John
Hate to state (what appears to be) the bleeding obvious here, but as you seem to have both an A1 and a Mixer, why don't you try it and then let us know?


CS

Last edited by Chris Soucy; April 7th, 2008 at 01:10 PM. Reason: +
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Old April 7th, 2008, 03:33 PM   #4
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Thanks for the kind effort at help. Perhaps I need to be a little clearer. If you know anything about the Sound Devices 302 you'll know that it takes a bit of work to shift it from line out to mic out, or so I've read. You see, I've just bought mine and it's still on the way. I had hoped to solve this problem before it arrived. But again, thanks for your kind advice.
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Old April 7th, 2008, 03:38 PM   #5
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Hi the mixer will be a Sound Devices 302 into an XH A1. Does that give you any more information? Again, I've just read testimonial to this problem elsewhere in this forum's audio page. I've contacted my dealer and Canon themselves and they say they have not heard of this problem.
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Old April 7th, 2008, 04:39 PM   #6
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Well, there you go...........

"what appears to be" wasn't.

The A1/ Mixer pairing must be rarer than one would expect, as I have only ever seen one post mentioning a problem between the two (other cameras certainly, not the A1). Probably the same post you mentioned.

Either that, or more likely there isn't actually a general problem, else it would be cropping up all the time, considering just how many A1's are out there.

I/ we never did get an answer as to just what the problem was, from memory.

Once you actually get your hands on both, give it a shot and let us know one way or the other, it would be interesting for there to be another instance of this problem.

What is the issue with going from Line to Mic on the mixer? Isn't it just a switch?


CS
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Old April 7th, 2008, 07:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Whiteway View Post
The person said that "with line in on the camera results in too low a signal". His workaround had been to add a 50dB pad to his mixer's line-out and send it to the camer's XLR set at mic.
Professional equipment, like your SD 302, sends +4dBu, but the XH A1 expects +8dBu.
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Old April 7th, 2008, 09:15 PM   #8
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Let us know your experience with the SD 302 and the XH-A1. My experience with the XLH1 and the Sound Devices is the Canon inputs have to be cranked up very high in Line level to get to -20DB and may not even reach that signal with tone. Mic Level seems to match up better with the mixer/camera combination you are looking at. While others may disagree the issue seems to be the SD 302 is really putting out 0dBu line level not +4dBu and the Canon does expect +8dBu as Daniel Browning mentioned. There seems to be a way to set the SD 302 for
a +4dBU output at least as far as the meters are concerned.
Different mixers do have different outputs so it usually is normalled out by the input adjustments but the combination of the SD 302 and Canon XLH1 does not seem to hit the sweet spot.
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Old April 7th, 2008, 09:43 PM   #9
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I use the SD302 with the XH-A1. Works fine at Line level in on the cam. You'll need to crank the channel gain controls to max tho'. Send a 1kHz tone from the SD302 to the cam and it lines up at -20 on the cam's meters (when inputs are switched to Line, and are up fully).
I also tried setting the 302's outputs to Mic level then using the Cam's inputs set to Mic level also. Result: noisier than using Line with max gain.
Regards, Ross.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 03:04 AM   #10
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Also reported here.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=109425

Cheers.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 12:03 PM   #11
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This imagined mixer-to-XHA1 problem creeps up repetedly. There is none!

Standard line in from mixer like SD302 matches up perfectly with XH-A1 when the potentiometers are opened up all the way. There is nothing to be worried about, this just clears any padding from the line, it does not add more amplification.

The link above leads to my post about the tests I made: with line in and the pots open all the way we get over 90 dB S/N ratio, using mic level in from SD302 (just to keep the pots not open, why???) the S/N ratio drops to 79 dB.

In conclusion: XH-A1 and SD302, easy to set up, perfect match.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 12:22 PM   #12
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Can't say that I've used one myself, but I have seen the SD302 in action with the XH-A1 and other cameras and have never heard of any problems.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 10:31 PM   #13
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As I see it, there is an additional problem with the A1 that I can't believe Canon allowed. However, Canon is not an audio company. The mic/line switches affect both inputs. Unlike Sony products, Canon didn't want to spend an extra 2 cents to put separate line/mic switching on the inputs.
Thus it forces me to insert a 50db pad when receiving a line level from a mixer (which works fine) because I need to use my external camera mic as a backup/and ambient sound mic on channel 2. Taking a direct feed should never be the only sound source for recording.
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Old April 9th, 2008, 08:08 AM   #14
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Taking a direct feed from a mixer can mean that you are tethered to the mixer. Something to consider - connect a wireless transmitter (pad with an attenuator as necessary) to mixer output to allow mobility.
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Old April 9th, 2008, 06:06 PM   #15
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I've used a Shure FP33 mixer sending line-in to the XH A1. My pots were about 2/3 - 3/4 open to get the -20 tone with the master gain at zero. And that's about the same level I used to open the pots on a DSR500 with the same mixer.
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