A1 lens limitations
 

Hi all,
Just wondering if someone could help me out with a problem i have with my XH A1. I do a lot of wildlife filming, quite a bit of which i use a Raynox 1.8 tele converter. I have found this lens to be great, but i have found that with or without this converter, i often find myself with a perfect close up of a bird or something, but when fully zoomed in, i can't get the focus at that range. I am guessing this is the limitations of the main lens, as it is the same without the converter.
Would a diopter filter help with this? If so, would it also work between the main lens & the tele extender to give me a closer focal range?

Thanks in advance,

Bryce

Sounds like the same problem I had when using just the main lens. If you zoom in first, then focus, everything stays in focus at all focal lengths (or it is supposed to). The focussing is more critical on a telephoto setting than a wide angle, so if you focus on the wide angle first, by the time you zoom in, you find you're not on that critical point.

I know it's difficult with wildlife - animals just don't stay still enough for long enough.

A teleconverter is high up on my list of things to get this year, so any comments about using one are of interest to me.

Hi Annie,
Thanks for the reply. What i meant though, was that if you are fully zoomed in, then the lens will only focus on objects at a certain distance from the lens. It's around about 6 feet or 2 meters with the tele conversion lens on, & a bit shorter than that without it. I am just wondering if a diopter would help this.

Thanks,

Bryce

Ah, I think you are talking about the minimum focussing distance of the lens?

When you are on wide angle, you can focus down to a few centimetres, but when you zoom in, you have to move back quite a bit to get the closest focussing? That is pretty much the case with zoom lenses. Some cameras/lenses do have a close-focus option at the telephoto end - eg my Sony A1e - allowing much closer focus than normal.

If so, yes, a close-up filter on the front of the lens would reduce the focussing distance and you'd probably have to focus manually.

There is a pdf about the focussing distances etc for the Canon A1 with the raynox at (teleconverter and dioptres)
http://www.raynox.co.jp/english/video/egvideoindex.htm
just look down the page for Canon A1/G1 - it suggests the minimum focussing distance becomes 3.5metres.

You might try a 1/2 plus diopter if you need to get closer.

Agree sounds like you need a diopter, check out century/schieder, double element achromatic's... they are expensive but excellent.

Jon

Excellent guys,
Thank you very much. I will look into getting one ASAP.

Thanks,

Bryce

check out my recent post here

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...490#post868490

is that what you're talking about?

Hi Paul,
It certainly sounds like what i'm after. Are you able to zoom in from further away from an object with these filters & still 1) get good shots, & 2) are you able to focus on subjects closer to the camera while still being zoomed all the way in? If i am going to get something like this, i think i will go for one of the more expensive, better known ones. I recently bought a tele conversion lens for my Dad for his stills camera while i was in Singapore. I didn't get to check it on a camera but was assured by the shop assistant that it was very high quality. When i got it home & gave it to him, we set it up & took some shots. The CA was so bad, the lens is useless for anything but a paperweight. So i think i will have a look at the Scheider optics +2 Diopter, or maybe even the Raynox set since i am very happy with the tele conversion lens i have of theirs.

Bryce

I was able to focus on items on full zoom a couple of cm from the lens but the quality is questionable - I really just wanted to see what the results were, and for the price it was good to play around.

I should really do some tests with a focus chart and measure the distance to the lens.. but then again I should clean out the gutters.. you never know

I hear you Paul,
There's probably a million & one other things i should be doing when i'm playing with my camera, but none of them seem half as much fun! :)

Bryce

Canon also offers some diopters, however, not really marketed for their video cameras.

Also remember that there are single and double element ones,

Single = Cheaper however you will see edge distortion

Double = More expensive but hardly any distortion (if any) E.g Schieder / Century

Ok, so i looks like it's a choice between the Schneider optics 3.5 diopter or the Raynox macro lens kit which consists of 2 lens', 1x 2 diopter, & 1x 3 diopter, together forming a 5 diopter. I am very happy with the quality of the Raynox tele conversion lens i have, but really like the look of the Schneider diopter for its simpicity, & a 3.5 diopter will probably do me for what i need. The price is the only hurdle now, as the Schneider optics lens is almost twice the price of the Raynox. I would love to hear from anyone who has used either or both of these lens add ons.

Thanks,

Bryce

The Canon models are 250D and 500D, available in a variety of diameters. (I've used one with a GL1.) Some more info at:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...e_up_Lens.html

Thanks Don,
Just had a look now. It looks like the only one they have that has a 72mm thread is the single element 500. It certainly is cheaper than both the Raynox & the Schneider. Hmmm, more to think about!

Thanks,

Bryce

Hey Bryce,
I finished a project last year called Garden insects that is on PBS nationally since July. From the title you can guess that it is almost entirely close up footage. I'm using an A1 now, but this was shot with an XL1s. I actually used a cheep set of Hoya diopters - 1, 2 & 4. They worked pretty good on the standard lens, but with the 35mm adapter & a 300mm lens, there was a lot of edge distortion. Of corse it stuck out like a sore thumb to me, but most people thought the shots were awesome. With the A1 these filters work great also in many situations, but in some shots of say, white flowers against a darker background, the edges blow out & are a bright blue (totally unacceptable) I'd definitely get the higher quality lenses. I find the +2, to be the one I reach for most.

chris

Thanks very much Chris,
I was thinking of the +3.5 from Schneider. It is very expensive, but i figure with their reputation, they wouldn't sell a bad piece of glass. I'm still not too sure how it all works with the +1, +2, +3 thing. Would i be correct in assuming that i would be able to get a better result at 1-2m from my object with the 3.5 than the 2, or is it the other way around?

Thanks in advance,

Bryce

B&H Says:
"...Close-up lenses 250D and 500D have two achromatic elements to correct chromatic aberrations. They do not degrade the high optical performance of EF lenses. Close-up lens 500 has only one element, making it more affordable."

The link was to the 2-element 500D in 72mm, not to a 500 (with no letter D).

Thanks Don,
I should have read it more thoroughly. That now makes this option much more appealing. It looks like it is a +2 which should be about right for what i want, & e heck of a lot cheaper! Sold!

Thanks,

Bryce

Hey Bryce,
This is approximately how my close up filters work with a telephoto lens that has a minimum focus of 6ft. The +1 lets you get focus at about 3-4ft, the +2,
lets you get in about 2ft, and the +4 lets you get about a 1ft.

Note that the 500D is sold mainly as a still camera film product, not many folks speak about using it with video. If you google canon 500D you will find a lot of comments by users doing stills (including insect life) with it.

With low-power closeup lenses, like +1/2, +1 or even +2, the results from a single element are quite acceptable to many people. Because they are inexpensive, you may want to try them out before springing for the 2-element version. In regards to which power to use, my experience is to stick to the lowest you can get away with for best quality. I have never tried the Schneiders.

Peter
www.parkfilms.com

I completely agree with Peter. "Garden Insects" was shot almost entirely with a cheep ($70 + -) set of 3 Hoya filters, it was/is broadcast nationally, and the comment I've gotten most is awesome photography. I still use the +1 & +2 with the A1 and am very satisfied with them. The +4 doesn't fair so well. but I rarely have a need to get that close and if it is something that is moving, getting that close almost always scares it away. The +4 is really the only one that performs unaccepably. If I were to do another project like this, I would spring for some higher quality, but for the occasional close up, these do work fine for me.
Peace,
Chris

Thanks to everyone for all your help with this. I have ordered the Canon 500D which i believe is +2. I think that should be about perfect for the distances i will be shooting, & was at a much more reasonable price than the Schneider. I will let you know how it goes with this lens when i get to try it out. I figure it will work very well on the end of the A1, but one thing i will try, & i have no idea if will work at all yet, is to put it on the end of the A1 then attach my tele conversion lens to it. Will be interesting to see if it will work. It sure would be nice to be able to focus on subjects that i am shooting at a distance that all of a sudden come much closer to where presently i am unable to film because they are too close.

Thanks again for all your help.

Bryce

Hi all,
Just a quick note to let you know that i ended up buying the Canon 500D. I have just received it & had a bit of a play around with it. So far it looks very nice. Will play around a bit more tomorrow, & i'm sure i will love it when i have a bit more light to work with. I'll try to post some pics soon incase anyone else in interested in the difference it makes.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help,

Bryce