Darker than expected at DVinfo.net

Jason Bowers · June 16th, 2008, 02:57 PM

I recently shot a wedding with my A1's and the lcd looked great, but when I am editing in FCP6 the image looks really dark? Is there a problem with the lcd making the image looker brighter than it actually is or is my imac and macbook pro screens confusing me?

Thanks

Bill Pryor · June 16th, 2008, 03:49 PM

You should judge exposure by your zebras, not the LCD screen. You can adjust the viewfinder to color bars and get reasonably close, but getting the LCD so it is right is difficult. It can look light or dark depending on the angle of view. With the viewfinder your eye is in the same place all the time, so it can be more accurate.

Hopefully you're within a reasonable exposure range so you can tweak things and bring up levels a bit without messing up the image quality. However, you really need a properly calibrated NTSC monitor to check how the footage really looks.

Jason Bowers · June 16th, 2008, 04:48 PM

Hi Bill,
We used zebra patterns on both cameras and judged Exposure accordingly. Never ran into this problem on my Sony's. the lighting was natural and shouldn't look so dark on the monitors.

James Hooey · June 16th, 2008, 06:20 PM

FWIW check your LCD display settings on the A1's menus. Could be you shot with the backlight set to bright rather than normal.

Jason Bowers · June 16th, 2008, 06:31 PM

Nope just checked and the lcd is set to normal and all the settings are in the middle.

Mark Fry · June 17th, 2008, 04:09 AM

Odd that you were using zebras but still had problems... Were you using a custom preset? One or two of the presets posted on this site have "tweaks" to the set-up, master pedestal and/or black-level that make the image look a bit dark. Look on the bright side, though (pun intended!) - better to be slightly under-exposed than over, since you can often raise the brightness a little and recapture some details.

Petri Kaipiainen · June 17th, 2008, 05:01 AM

Connect the camera to a normal TV set, play the tape and check what the video REALLY looks like. Or better still, to a professional video monitor.

NEVER judge (or make fast judgements) about the exposure relying on a computer monitor.

Alex Plank · June 17th, 2008, 05:34 AM

Final Cut Pro 6 darkens the gamma in the canvas to compensate for the default mac display gamma of 1.8. If you changed your display's gamma to 2.2 the FCP video would be too dark.

Scott Hayes · June 17th, 2008, 05:39 AM

wow, never knew FCP did this. I have the same issue with my Sony footage, and
end up lightning it. So, do you tweak it, or leave it alone?

Alex Plank · June 17th, 2008, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hayes

wow, never knew FCP did this. I have the same issue with my Sony footage, and
end up lightning it. So, do you tweak it, or leave it alone?

well, once you export it to the web it will go back to the gamma you shot it at (quicktime may also lower the gamma when playing the footage). So the only thing you can do is to calibrate your monitor to a 1.8 gamma unless you can figure out how to turn off the gamma correction FCP has.

I just change the gamma of my displays to 1.8 when i'm in FCP and switch them back to 2.2 for all other work.

Jason Bowers · June 17th, 2008, 08:34 AM

Alex,
So should I just edit the HDV footage as normal and when I output to SD DVD will the problem be corrected or is there anything I should do immediately?

Thanks for the help

Alex Plank · June 17th, 2008, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Bowers

Alex,
So should I just edit the HDV footage as normal and when I output to SD DVD will the problem be corrected or is there anything I should do immediately?

Thanks for the help

If you don't mess with the footage's color or light levels things should turn out good on DVD.

Ideally you would set your monitor to a 1.8 gamma when working in final cut pro.

Here's an article with some tips on dealing with Final Cut Pro's color including an applescript to make changing between different gammas easier:

http://www.leadinghd.com/?p=4

Bill Pryor · June 17th, 2008, 06:06 PM

What setting are you using for your zebras? If you were gettting zebras on the flesh tones and still dark, check the zebra setting. I keep mine at 75%.

Jason Bowers · June 17th, 2008, 06:34 PM

I was using zebras at 100%. When shooting the reception the lcd and viewfinder both looked good but the imac is really dark. I hope what Alex is saying is true.

Brendan Anderson · June 17th, 2008, 10:43 PM

For what it's worth, I found after my first weekend shooting with the A1 that my footage was also dark compared with what I had been seeing in the LCD. I thus simply adjusted the on-camera LCD brightness down a notch or two and it's been much more reliable ever since. But it also helps to keep in mind what you're ultimately shooting for: TV or web.

-Brendan

June 16th, 2008, 02:57 PM	#1
Jason Bowers Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thunder Bay, ON. Canada Posts: 374	Darker than expected I recently shot a wedding with my A1's and the lcd looked great, but when I am editing in FCP6 the image looks really dark? Is there a problem with the lcd making the image looker brighter than it actually is or is my imac and macbook pro screens confusing me? Thanks

June 16th, 2008, 06:20 PM	#4
James Hooey Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bruce Pennisula, Canada Posts: 316	FWIW check your LCD display settings on the A1's menus. Could be you shot with the backlight set to bright rather than normal. __________________ For Stock Footage http://www.revostock.com/ViewProfile.html?&ID=4811 My Website http://www.soundprostudios.com

June 17th, 2008, 04:09 AM	#6
Mark Fry Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 425	Odd that you were using zebras but still had problems... Were you using a custom preset? One or two of the presets posted on this site have "tweaks" to the set-up, master pedestal and/or black-level that make the image look a bit dark. Look on the bright side, though (pun intended!) - better to be slightly under-exposed than over, since you can often raise the brightness a little and recapture some details. __________________ Steam Age Pictures - videos in aid of railway preservation societies.

June 16th, 2008, 03:49 PM	#2
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	You should judge exposure by your zebras, not the LCD screen. You can adjust the viewfinder to color bars and get reasonably close, but getting the LCD so it is right is difficult. It can look light or dark depending on the angle of view. With the viewfinder your eye is in the same place all the time, so it can be more accurate. Hopefully you're within a reasonable exposure range so you can tweak things and bring up levels a bit without messing up the image quality. However, you really need a properly calibrated NTSC monitor to check how the footage really looks.

June 16th, 2008, 04:48 PM	#3
Jason Bowers Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thunder Bay, ON. Canada Posts: 374	Hi Bill, We used zebra patterns on both cameras and judged Exposure accordingly. Never ran into this problem on my Sony's. the lighting was natural and shouldn't look so dark on the monitors.

June 16th, 2008, 06:31 PM	#5
Jason Bowers Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thunder Bay, ON. Canada Posts: 374	Nope just checked and the lcd is set to normal and all the settings are in the middle.

June 17th, 2008, 05:01 AM	#7
Petri Kaipiainen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Espoo Finland Posts: 380	Connect the camera to a normal TV set, play the tape and check what the video REALLY looks like. Or better still, to a professional video monitor. NEVER judge (or make fast judgements) about the exposure relying on a computer monitor.

June 17th, 2008, 05:34 AM	#8
Alex Plank Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 46	Final Cut Pro 6 darkens the gamma in the canvas to compensate for the default mac display gamma of 1.8. If you changed your display's gamma to 2.2 the FCP video would be too dark.

June 17th, 2008, 05:39 AM	#9
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	wow, never knew FCP did this. I have the same issue with my Sony footage, and end up lightning it. So, do you tweak it, or leave it alone?

June 17th, 2008, 08:34 AM	#11
Jason Bowers Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thunder Bay, ON. Canada Posts: 374	Alex, So should I just edit the HDV footage as normal and when I output to SD DVD will the problem be corrected or is there anything I should do immediately? Thanks for the help

June 17th, 2008, 06:06 PM	#13
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	What setting are you using for your zebras? If you were gettting zebras on the flesh tones and still dark, check the zebra setting. I keep mine at 75%.

June 17th, 2008, 06:34 PM	#14
Jason Bowers Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thunder Bay, ON. Canada Posts: 374	I was using zebras at 100%. When shooting the reception the lcd and viewfinder both looked good but the imac is really dark. I hope what Alex is saying is true.

June 17th, 2008, 10:43 PM	#15
Brendan Anderson New Boot Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 10	For what it's worth, I found after my first weekend shooting with the A1 that my footage was also dark compared with what I had been seeing in the LCD. I thus simply adjusted the on-camera LCD brightness down a notch or two and it's been much more reliable ever since. But it also helps to keep in mind what you're ultimately shooting for: TV or web. -Brendan