RODE NTG-3 on the A1.
 

Hi all, to go along with my A1 I wanted a good shotgun. I knew the NTG-3 was coming last year and was advised to wait and check it out. It's worth it, this is a very serious mic. It's RODES first pro grade shotgun and I think it'll challenge guns twice the price.

A few observations on the A1. I first set it up in a quiet room with Senn HD600 cans to check out its noise level, the G3 is very quiet as the adv. says. My wife stood 2feet in front and delivered the old 'testing testing' and 'she sells seashells' routine. She's had plenty of practise married to a sound wallah for 35years :)

There's plenty of gain on the A1 and it sounds rich and warm with a great low end. Siblance is also rich and thick, in short the G3 sounds great to my ear. 48 volts rock again.

Mounting it on the A1s external mic mount, like other guns, the G3 needs more support around it to keep it level. After experimenting, a small strip of bubble wrap around it does the trick, anyone got any better ideas? With the A1 zoomed out, there's no overhang from the G3 in frame.

If you wrap tape around the G3, you'd have to remove it each time you put it away.

With its supplied windshield on, the G3 is 10 1/2" long with 3" at the other end for a mount. So far I think the ideal position for it is in a RODE SM3 or 4 shockmount on the A1s shoe. The G3 sits up well away from the A1s mic which will sit right next to it in the external mount. Not happy Jan, the G3 left vents get blocked out.

I also have the AT8415 mount with the rubber bands, they're not strong enough, the G3 dips down at the front. That mount with the polymer supports would be the answer, apparently available as an upgrade.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...th_Deluxe.html

My next level of wind protection on the cam is a Koala Mini-Max 190. It pulls on over the G3s windjammer and *just* appears in frame on WA. Mounted up on the shoe is OK. Medium breezes only though, whatever they are. ;)

BnH say the Rycote zeppelin kit 4 for the NTG-3, mine just fits my kit 3 and with its windjammer on.

There's no on/off or filter on the NTG-3, to keep the audio path as clean as possible, I don't miss 'em, just turn the juice on *after* I connect it up. That's not mentioned in the manual and I questioned this. RODE make their own XLR socket for the G3, pin 1 is longer to help earthing and to further help negate RF interference they're big on that.

Oh yeah, you also get a weather resistant aluminium cylinder and pouch for the G3, great protection in the field. The 10 6/10 inch long cylinder just fits sitting across the short side of the Pelican 1510 case.

The pro grade NTG-3 is indeed a major step up from the NTG-1 and 2, very well worth checking one out. IMO it's going to sell a lot of booms.

Cheers.

Thanks for sharing, Allan. I expect to order mine early this fall (sight un-heard/un-seen) and it's great to hear user experiences.

With all due respect:

"Siblance is also rich and thick."
-Sibilance. Rich and thick "S" sounds?

"After experimenting, a small strip of bubble wrap around it does the trick,"
-Hopefully not covering up the interference tube slots.

"If you wrap tape around the G3, you'd have to remove it each time you put it away."
-Hopefully not covering up the interference tube slots.

"I don't miss 'em, just turn the juice on *after* I connect it up. That's not mentioned in the manual and I questioned this."
-You can connect the mic with or or without the phantom power or camera power on and off with no problem.

"RODE make their own XLR socket for the G3, pin 1 is longer to help earthing and to further help negate RF interference they're big on that."
-It's not that it helps negate RF interference, it just provides a ground slightly sooner in the connection process. The RF condenser circuit used in the Sennheiser 416 is known for its ability to ignore moisture. How Rode is doing this without violating patents, I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. Knowing Peter Freedman, it's perfectly legitimate.

For more info on the Sennheiser process: http://www.phonomorphics.co.uk/resou...ennheiser).pdf

"The pro grade NTG-3 is indeed a major step up from the NTG-1 and 2, very well worth checking one out."
- I agree. Unless the one I have here craps out (which I don't expect it to based on past performance of Rode mics), I'll be adding the NTG-3 to the "Good Gear" list in my book for the next printing.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Hi Shaun, the NTG-3 is a great choice. The cylinder opens both ends, the BnH demo has the guy unscrewing both to take the mic out, that's not necessary. Just don't rip it out like I saw here last week, came out with a loud POP! bad scene bix.

On the A1 you need a short XLR cable, I'm currently using an Audio Technica ASP-00127. It has a right angle Neutrik XLR which suits the G-3 when it's mounted in the mic holder and especially up on the A1s shoe. The cable is just marked 'Korea' It's not my preferred Canare cable but it's only 15" long.

G'day Ty, I see you're well respected here and I enjoy your posts too. Yes sir! after 46years in pro audio including 30years with our own production studios, rich and thick, that's how I'd describe good sounding sibilance....versus sounding scratchy and thin.

No, never block any gun vents of course, I figured most would know that, and that's why I don't like the G3 in the A1s mic holder, it's to close to its own mic. masking 3/4 of the G3s left vents. Sometimes you'd have no choice with another accessory up on the A1s shoe; even then I'd try to swap them around to get the G3 out in the clear.

Old habits die hard, I always connect the gear then power up, try too anyway.

RF biasing mics is not patented, been around for a long while but it takes a lot of development.

Pete Freedman told me RODE make their own NTG-3 XLR to help kill RF interference. The pins are specifically insulated. I work around aeroplanes, our Lockheed Super Constellation has 144 spark plugs, I think I've heard from every one of them at one time or another. My G3 is going to get a workout in that dept.

For my uses, I'd like a stereo version of this mic.

The NTG-3 was 2 years in development and with their reputation, now RODE is really making waves, very helpful as the G3 is good in wet conditions :)

Cheers.

"Yes sir! after 46years in pro audio including 30years with our own production studios, rich and thick, that's how I'd describe good sounding sibilance....versus sounding scratchy and thin."

>>>Dear Allan; I appreciate and respect your experience. Maybe it's a hemisphere thing. Up here, sibilance, is the production of S, Z, Ch and first moments of a T sound. Normal sibilance is the correct amount of high frequencies. Excessive sibilance is when these sounds are too thick. You can actually see them on a DAW waveform screen. The sounds aren't louder, they are just thicker. That's a bad thing.

Pete Freedman told me RODE make their own NTG-3 XLR to help kill RF interference. The pins are specifically insulated. I work around aeroplanes, our Lockheed Super Constellation has 144 spark plugs, I think I've heard from every one of them at one time or another. My G3 is going to get a workout in that dept.

>>>>It's getting to be a nasty RF world out there, at least up here in the states. Most mic manufacturers have had to redesign their mics to keep RF out. Grounding and shielding have become increasingly important. Blackberries and other personal portable devices are leaking into everything. More and more devices have "a computer" in them. Peter's very aware of things like that.

I expect the NTG-3 to do well, especially at its price point.

Regards,

Ty Ford

I'd really like to get the NTG-3 for my A1. Is this the best mic in that price range or would a Sennheiser ME-66 or 67 be better? I saw a coupon on this forum to save $100 at the DVe store which tempted me to seriously consider upgrading now.

I currently use an Oktava Bello Nero which is a great mic for the price, but not always great for what I use it for: one-man show indie filmmaking with the mic on a shockmount (rarely do I ever have a boom operator). I am always moving around, changing angles and distances when shooting (I rarely use a tripod) and my amateur actors never seem to remember to speak up loud enough no matter how many times I tell them to, LOL. The Oktava is just not sensitive enough for my purposes if I am more than a few feet away and I usually end up having to crank up the audio in FCP by anywhere from +5db to +10db, which is a pain in the neck.

Will the NTG-3 answer my prayers? Also, those Rycote windshield kits from B&H are outrageously expensive--almost the price of the mic itself! Highway robbery, LOL, but how many are they gonna sell no matter what the price is?

So which Rycote kit do I need for the NTG-3? Somebody said either windshield kit 3 or kit 4. I tried clicking the "more info" links on the B&H listing but it only led to techno-babble on the Rycote site that did not tell me which kit would fit the NTG-3.

Kit 3: Rycote | Windshield Kit 3 | 086002 | B&H Photo Video

Kit 4: Rycote | Windshield Kit 4 - $695 | 086001 | B&H Photo Video

Hi Jim, of course with any shotgun you still need good voices within 3-5 feet. Yes the NTG-3 is a great sound especially for the price. A big consideration is, there's no low or low cut on the A1 if you run the G3 into the mic input. Outdoors this can be trouble if you haven't got good wind protection for your rig.

I ended up getting an SD 302 with its 2 low cuts. It's brilliant. Look up Juiced Link for another preamp.

Right now RODE have new accessories, and the WS7 for the NTG-3. They also have a new zeppelin (or blimp) arriving soon. Not sure of the current US availability.

I already had a RYCOTE 3 kit for my other mics and the NTG-3 just fits it. The XLR plug sits in the rear mic holder and it works fine, also has the connbox (insulator for the output cable) and I think that's needed. B&H recommend the kit 4 which is slightly larger and if I was buying it new I'd get that.

That particular RYCOTE range is the most expensive, but they work. I've been in winds that would almost blow the camera over but you didn't hear the wind.

Then they have their cheaper S series, don't know about those. Then there's the Indian zeppelins off the web. IMO you get what you pay for there but some buyers say they work too.

If you get a zeppo, then you need an operator, you may as well get a boom for him/her?

Cheers.

I have a K-Tek KE-89 boom pole but gave up using it because the boom operator I hired was lousy (and cost me $50 a day) and running boom greatly slowed down production and limited my freedom of movement with the camera. Getting an extra person to show up and run boom is usually too much trouble and expense, but just in case I do get a boom op for my more important shoots, will the KE-89 work with the NTG-3?

I currently use an Oktava Bello Nero mic with a Baby Ball Gag and dead cat. I've never used a long shotgun mic or zeppelin before. Why do I need an operator for a zeppelin? It doesn't just fit on my shockmount? I currently have a K-Tek K-SM shockmount for my boom and a Rode SM-3 for my hot shoe; will those both work with the NTG-3?

What's an SD-302?

A shot-gun mic will give you better "reach" than an ordinary cardiod, so if you have to work with the mic on-camera, it should help you. As Allan has said, you will need a good shock mount and wind protection, because they shot-guns are more sensitive than other mics. You'll also have to keep a careful eye on your levels, for the same reason.

Zeppelins are normally too large for camera mounting, though I have seen them on special brackets bolted to a tripod. More often they need their own stand or a separate operator. You might be able to do something with the XH-A1's round microphone mount, rather than the hot-shoe? Alternatively, try a Rycote Softie, which is much better than just a "dead cat" and less bulky than a proper zepplin basket. It's fine in moderate breezes.

Won't your boom-pole work with any mic, or does it have a mic-specific shock-mount on the end? Even so, the pole should be fine with a different mount.

An SD-302 is a portable sound-mixer, made by Sound Devices. Not exactly cheap, but widely used on film sets, etc. and often used when you have a dedicated sound operator.

I really recommend having a good browse around the "All Things Audio" forum. Most of what I know about improving audio, I learned from the regular posters there. Very little is camera-specific - bad sound spoils the whole thing whether you are shooting the grandchildren on VHS or making a Hollywood movie.

The two things that really spoilt my early efforts were poor sound and an unsteady tripod. The tripod was the easier thing to fix!

I have a K-Tek KE-89 boom pole but gave up using it because the boom operator I hired was lousy (and cost me $50 a day) and running boom greatly slowed down production and limited my freedom of movement with the camera. Getting an extra person to show up and run boom is usually too much trouble and expense, but just in case I do get a boom op for my more important shoots, will the KE-89 work with the NTG-3?

>>>Hello Jim. Advancing from a solo to duo operation requires some thought. If you hired a green boom op, that's on you. At $50/day, you can't hire a good boom op. A good location audio person can help your entire shoot move more smoothly and increase the quality of your audio dramatically.. exponentially.

I currently use an Oktava Bello Nero mic with a Baby Ball Gag and dead cat. I've never used a long shotgun mic or zeppelin before. Why do I need an operator for a zeppelin?

>>>Getting really good audio from a camera mounted mic is pretty impossible. You had a bad time because of inexperience. You learned something from it. Keep at it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ah, I see. I originally wore pro-headphones when shooting, but haven't bothered the past year because I don't like them (too bulky). I just keep an eye on the A1's LCD audio bars instead and hope for the best, LOL. I can get a pretty good idea when the actors are too low from that. I suppose I'll have to go back to wearing headphones with the NTG-3 then?

So which shockmount do you recommend for the NTG-3?

So I should get a Rycote Softie instead of the Windshield Kit if I plan to use the NTG-3 mostly on the A1's hotshoe? Anything else I should get?

The boom pole itself should work with any mic (I would hope!), but I'm not sure about the K-Tek K-SM shockmount. Do you know if it will work with the NTG-3?

Jim,

With all good humor intended.

Repeat after me, "When do you wear headphones?...ALWAYS."
"When do you wear headphones?...ALWAYS."
"When do you wear headphones?...ALWAYS."
"When do you wear headphones?...ALWAYS."

We don't want to see you back here posting for advice because you weren't wearing them and ~thought~ everything was OK, but your audio turned out to be crap because you weren't listening.

My advice on which headphones? Sony MDR7506 or AT ATH-M50. the MDR7506 are smaller.

Regards,

Ty ("When do you wear headphones?...ALWAYS.") Ford

I'll second that headphone rant. If you don't like bulky headphones, get some less bulky ones. You can not record sound without wearing headphones. The meters let you know if the levels are good, but they don't tell you if anything weird is happening, like low wind noise, clothing rustles, background noise, etc., not to mention a dying battery hiss or interference in a wireless system. Not wearing headphones for sound recording would be like not looking through the viewfinder when you're shooting.

Make mic fit with o-rings in camera mount
 

if you get some o-rings from the hardware store, you can find a size that will fit snugly on the mic. Space several to fit in the XH-A1 mic holder, it will then hold the mic firmly without having to remove tape, bubble wrap or some other hack.

Blimp
 

Rode makes a reasonable looking blimp that apparently comes with a real fur cover, which I read somewhere works better than the synthetic ones.

BH sells them for $299, a good deal less than most.

not real fur.

Larry, you are a hoot.

Ty Ford

real vs fake fur
 

Apparently the fur cover is not real fur, it's synthetic. The rode site says it's a dead wombat. Apparently a fake dead wombat or a real one with a fake hairpiece.

Ty, it must be the owl I hear outside my house.

Well, dead-cats are also not made from dead felines. ;)

Hang on, all these years thinking dead cats and dead wombats were one and the same thing!

Seriously though, I came to this thread looking for a critique between the NTG-3 and the Sennheiser ME66. Obviously the Sennheiser is more expensive but is it worth the extra expense over the NTG-3?

Which do you recommend I buy? I do like the wireless setup of Sennheiser, the use of the plug in transmitter to free up the boom operator from wires... In fact I like this whole sound location package: DV eStore Theatre - Location Sound

Chris

Um, just thinking about that particular video.

1. How does the boom op know if the mic's in the right spot? Visually? I don't think so.
Better to cable down to a small mixer or headphone amp with pass though so the boom op can hear what's going on.

2. The last thing I want as a boom op is another thing attached to the mic end of the boom.
It may not seem like a lot of weight when you hold it in your hand, but do the math. On the end of a 14 foot stick, four ounces weighs a lot more than four ounces.

Per Archimedes, "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world."

Regards,

Ty Ford

isn't this the other way around? Last I checked the ME66 and K6 could be had for about $450. And the NTG-3 is close to $700 I think.

I can buy a new RODE NTG-3 for USD $599 and a RODE Blimp for $269.

You're right about the ME66 and K6 which I can get for $449, although the Sennheiser Blimp, hairy and pistol grip will add another $775

So does the NTG-3 beat the ME66/K6 hands down? Anyone here tried both?

As I've said, the reason I was favouring the Sennheiser is because I have a deal on the
Sennheiser Evolution G2 EW100 “A” which includes a plug in transmitter that I could stick into the end of the ME66 to make it wirefree. This would be handy for me if I'm using the A1 on a Steadicam with the ME66 on a boom pole.

I don't see Ty Ford's comment above about making it heavier since those transmitters are not heavy and the removal of a heavy wire can only improve that.


Chris

Tell you what Chris,

We'll stick the transmitter on the mic on the end of a 14 foot pole and let you hold the other end. We'll take it off the pole and see what that feels like. You can disagree with me all you like, but you can't disagree with physics.

Plus, as I said, there's no way for the boom op to hear if the mic's in the right spot.

I'm not sayin' it thrice.

Regards,

Ty Ford

me 66 vs ntg-3
 

I paid 499 for the ntg-3 new and a bit less for the me-66, but I'd say the ntg-3 has a noticeably better sound than the me-66 when comparing them side by side via a 302 mixer and decent headphones.

My ME-66 will soon be on ebay.

That's very interesting, and not altogether suprising. Rode have a track record of producing very good sound quality for the money. The K6+ME66 is very widely used, and often used as a bench mark when assessing short shotgun mics, but it has never struck me as particularly good value for money. I've spoken to a few people who considered buying one but ended up either getting a (much) cheaper Rode NTG-2 (as I did) or AT297, because the sound quality difference wasn't enough to justify x3 the price, or a (much) more expensive Senn, AKG or Schoeps (?) because "good enough" wasn't actually good enough for them.

Larry - do you have any side-by-side recordings? If so, would you be prepared to post them somewhere for the edification of the rest of us, please? If not, and you've not sold the Senn yet, could you find time to record and post something with the ME66 on one track and the NTG-3 on the other? I think this question is going to come up a lot in the coming months. Thanks in advance.

Mark,

No need to do that. The ME66 is a student grade mic. The NTG-3 is a lot better and better engineered to prevent rf and moisture problems.

Regards,

Ty

Hi Ty - thanks for the second opinion. I'd still be very interested to hear a side-by-side comparisson with the ME66, if only because it is the de facto bench-mark for short shot-gun mics. What does "a lot better" actually sound like? Someone like me, with only limited experience of a few different models in limited circumstances can learn a lot from listening to such comparissons.

Maybe over there. Over here it would be the MKH 416.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Right, you're correct of course Ty. I had a chance to try it yesterday. The new idea (think we covered this in another thread), is to have the boomed NTG-3 jack into a sound devices 302 and then the plug in wireless transmitter into the output of the 302.

Thing is, I want the boom op and myself to listen in on the cans (nope, I don't trust anyone!) Do I use a headphones split lead off the camera jack for this? Seems pretty pointless to have the sound go wireless and then hook up the boom op to his phones from the camera... Or can he plug in a feed from his FM?

..Bet you hate guys like me! ;p

Chris

"Right, you're correct of course Ty. I had a chance to try it yesterday. The new idea (think we covered this in another thread), is to have the boomed NTG-3 jack into a sound devices 302 and then the plug in wireless transmitter into the output of the 302."

>>Yes, that's what I suggested.

Thing is, I want the boom op and myself to listen in on the cans (nope, I don't trust anyone!)

>>I understand that feeling. When you begin to use really good sound people, that'll fade.

Do I use a headphones split lead off the camera jack for this? Seems pretty pointless to have the sound go wireless and then hook up the boom op to his phones from the camera... Or can he plug in a feed from his FM?

>> In addition to the two jobs; hearing if the mic's in the right spot and hearing if the audio you're getting is good, you also need to think about whether the transmitter antenna is in the best spot. You'll get better range with it up in the air, but then you have the weight.

>> If you have an internal cable you can plug the transmitter into the rear of the boom. A variety of doohickeys are available to add to booms to make that possible.

>> Boom op listens to the 302 or MixPre, you listen to the camera.

..Bet you hate guys like me! ;p

>> I stopped thinking about people who want to put their fingers in the fan a long time ago. I have a short finger or two myself.

Regards,

Ty Ford

me66 / ntg3
 

I used the me66 on an indy movie shoot and the producer was very happy with the sound. It might as well be new, and I still hear/read about lots of people who think they are great.

But, I bought the NTG3 because the price was right and it was recommended here. The aluminum tube it comes in looks like a pipe bomb. I can record to my XH-A1 which is compressed audio.

Next time I'm working on something I will do a side by side comparison.

I noticed that the NTG blimp price on the Australia Ebay is a great deal, any Aussies need something from the USA? We can do a cultural exchange.

Ty, thanks for recommending the Sound Devices SD 302, it's a very nice field mixer. I'm looking to try and cut the budget a little as the 302 is over £1000 here...

I was wondering how you rate the Sound Devices MP-2 Field Mixer? I know it's only 2 channels compared to the 302's 3... But I could probably get away with using only 2 channels per camera unit and it's kinder on my budget...

Is the MP-2 just as good as the 302 but for 2 channels?

I've also seen this Field Mixer http://www.pinknoise-systems.co.uk/s...ixer-p-34.html (Signvideo ENG-44 field portable Audio Mixer) ...It's supposed to be a great mixer for the price.

Chris

Just thinking to myself after I read the posts, would a pole holder, a grip head and a c stand solve the weight issue problem? That is hooking up the Sennheiser plug-in to the NTG3 directly. I don't need the boom op but I would like to go wireless. See link:

Getting By Without a Sound Person – How to Operate a Boompole without a Boompole Operator | B&H Photo Video Pro Video

Buenos Tardes Omar,

A locked down boom will work if the talent doesn't move. And even some sitting in chairs WILL move out of the sweet spot.

I use a light stand, grip head and fishing pole holder for that, but I usually have to adjust it as I go.

Regards,

Ty Ford

---------------------
My suggestion: run the signal via cable to an operator's monitor (we use a Rolls PM50sOB, iirc about $50, I'm sure there are fancier ones) and then, via short xlr jumper, to the xlr transmitter, both units hanging conveniently off your belt....the Rolls xlr plugs are too close together to permit direct use of the transmitter, so a 1' cable does the trick....no weight on the boom, monitoring for the operator, and complete mobility..../Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

Battle,

Have you ever boomed with a Rode NT3?

Regards,

Ty Ford

No, we don't have an NTg3 (way budgets are now, may be a loooong time). I would love to try one out, the reviews have been spectacular.

Our boom mike is an A-T815B, which have used successfully with the setup I mentioned earlier. We usually use it as a studio thing, attached to a C-stand, but with the weight off the mike and on your belt it is not bad to hand-hold. /B Vaughan

PS also, to be fair, it's a 10' boom, not the 14 footer you refered to earlier...that might be difficult with almost anything. Leverage, I know..... /bv

Battle,

Read my post. I said NT3 that's different than NTG-3.

The NT3 is a lot heavier and in my opinion, not a good candidate for boom.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Thought I'd post a couple of clips of the setup I mentioned earlier. The boom is a diy [I hear the flames coming already :) ] 10' gadget from Home depot with an adapter I machined and an AT shockmount and mike....we use it as a location or studio boom usually, but I have handheld it ok with the belt rig shown in the closeup.../Battle Vaughan /miamiherald.com video team

Sorry, Ty, misread your post. Not familiar with that mike...see images for what we got...works for us...ymmv!:) / B. Vaughan