What's wrong with my A1 - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 17th, 2008, 08:21 AM   #16
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 199
If it is premier, then how come it doesn't do the same with my dvx. I shot the same thing with both camera @ 30p but it only happen to the A1 footage. thx
Kiflom Bahta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2008, 08:25 AM   #17
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Katowice Poland
Posts: 11
Hi guys,
i know that you all love A1, so do i - at least in HDV mode.
This is simply how it works in SD, it's the same thing with mine. Shooting SD with A1 you always end up with a flickery and blurry footage. My advice is, save yourself trouble and shoot HDV or if you need SD on tape, shoot it with some other camera.

Please guys, don't hurt me now... ;-)
Przemysław Pyrek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2008, 08:41 AM   #18
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 199
This is a tough pill to swollow. I am not sold on the SD Vs HD issue. It also does it with the original AVI. Richard, can you repost the corrected the version. Thx
Kiflom Bahta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2008, 10:14 AM   #19
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Dallas
Posts: 747
The reason is A1 is too sharp, those thin horizontal line flickering are result of interlaced, if something is sharp and thin, and horizontal when the tv display the odd lines, it is there, but if there is a little bit of movement and when the tv display the even lines and it is not there anymore that is when you see flickering, DVX is no where as sharp as A1 that is why you don't see that problem, if you buy and HDV camera, shoot it in HDV not SD, or try turning the sharpness all the way down and horizontal detail frequency all the way down in the main menu. Shoot in HD and watch it on a progressive HD and I guarantee you that the problem is not there so the problem is in SD, people with EX1 are having the same problem downconvert to SD if they don't do it right.
__________________
Khoi Pham
www.proeditproductions.com
Khoi Pham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2008, 10:36 AM   #20
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 199
Hi Khoi, I used Steven's vivid to shoot this event with sharp set at 3. Why would sharpness would be ok in HD not SD?
Kiflom Bahta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2008, 10:59 AM   #21
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Dallas
Posts: 747
Because HDTV are mostly progressive, does not have a problem with thin horizontal line dispalying 1 field and then next field where the line might not be there, I don't know Steven's vivid preset but sharpness should always set to 0 or neutral, in your case using the camera as SD camera, it might be better to go into the negative range, sharpness at above neutral does nothing but add edge enhancement, edge enhancement is adding contrast at the edge, this will make your flickering worse.
Go to this link and learn about edge enhancement.
http://www.videophile.info/Guide_EE/Page_01.htm
__________________
Khoi Pham
www.proeditproductions.com
Khoi Pham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2008, 03:13 PM   #22
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 199
I see no use in shooting HD if my client want SD. If they pay me for HD, I shoot HD. Anyways if this the case, I will be in Dallas on August 2nd for a shoot and i will be more than happy take to you to a stake house of your choice. (*____*)
Kiflom Bahta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2008, 12:48 AM   #23
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2,205
In which case, you should shoot with an SD camera unless the client wants HD.

I think the question was how to get the best SD result with your HD camera, and shooting HD and downconverting seems to be the prevalent answer
Jim Andrada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2008, 01:07 AM   #24
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 532
i think, from what i've read here and also experienced, the 'use' in shooting and editing in HDV is that the final SD product is a better image, and you have more options in the future for output of the project (and the space required is the same as SD) . i relate it to recording audio at 24 bit 96 kHz when the final output is for a 16 bit 44.1 kHz CD (or MP3...). The end product is much richer. i''ve noticed a huge difference between 24 bit 96 kHz and 24 bit 44.1 kHz when converted to 16/44.1. Now i only record 24/96. so the question is: why use a match when you have a blowtorch?
CHAOS theory emphasizes the 'critical dependence on initial conditions'. it's SCIENCE...ience...ience...ience...ience....(ience).
Brian David Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2008, 01:15 AM   #25
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 532
i think, from what i've read here and also experienced, the 'use' in shooting and editing in HDV is that the final SD product is a better image, and you have more options in the future for output of the project (and the space required is the same as SD) . i relate it to recording audio at 24 bit 96 kHz when the final output is for a 16 bit 44.1 kHz CD (or MP3...). The end product is much richer. i''ve noticed a huge difference between 24 bit 96 kHz and 24 bit 44.1 kHz when converted to 16/44.1. Now i only record 24/96. so the question is: why use a match when you have a blowtorch?
CHAOS theory emphasizes the 'critical dependence on initial conditions'. it's SCIENCE...ience...ience...ience...ience....(ience).
Brian David Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2008, 08:00 PM   #26
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Whangarei, New Zealand
Posts: 396
Vimeo does add some jitteryness even if you download the flic.
I shoot everything HDV, edit HDV and then render out to SD.

I suspect this will solve all your problems, but am willing to virtually drink anyone under the virtual table if I'm wrong.
__________________
http://www.dmvideostuff.co.nz
Dennis Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19th, 2008, 11:05 PM   #27
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines
Posts: 1,110
Here's the first half of the same clip, but rendered in 720P which is allocated a higher bitrate by Vimeo.

http://www.vimeo.com/1372097

The artifacts are much reduced, so I believe that the compression is the main cause of the jittery lines. Having said that, I must add that I fully agree with the others, that you should shoot in HDV resolution with the XH-A1 and downres it later. You can even downconvert in camera while capturing to hard disk. This is not the best way of working, but I think it will give you better quality than shooting SD. And you will not even have to deal with m2t files at all, you just edit SD DV files as normal.

Richard
Richard Hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21st, 2008, 10:47 AM   #28
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 422
Here's another vote for shooting and editing in HDV and only down-scaling right at the very end of the project. Shooting HDV and down-scaling in-camera will not be much better than shooting SD, with the XH-A1 and, I think, any other HDV camera. Choose your conversion software carefully, too, because they are not all the same. I use Avid Liquid, which is not bad, but I hear that Canopus ProCoder (stand-alone or as part of Edius) is the best of the bunch at the moment. Since you have an XH-A1, I think that's the best way to get good SD outputs from it.

As for whether it's worth using an HDV camera if the end product is a regular DVD - some of my viewers say they see an improvement over my old XM1, while others don't. It's certainly no worse. I needed to replace the XM1, so went for HDV, since it does SD just as well as the old one and gives me wonderful HD as well. However, a friend faced with a similar choice went for another SD cam (VX2100 in his case) even though he has an HDTV. Horses for courses...
__________________
Steam Age Pictures - videos in aid of railway preservation societies.
Mark Fry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2008, 12:07 AM   #29
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 199
Hi guys, i am still trying figure this out. I know it is not vimeo or premier cuz it still does the same thing before capture. I also know it is not the preset or sharpness. I am very sure it is not SD Vs HD thingy. The A1 takes amazing SD, way better than my other SD camera's. So i willing to give $$$ for any body who can figure it out. Thank.
Kiflom Bahta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2008, 12:59 AM   #30
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 959
I just tried to look at this again & gave up with Vimeo. It's hard to judge anything qualitywise on that site.

I did use the download link provided for the avi file & noticed something interesting. It's as if there are stationary vertical "slices" (maybe 15 or so, evenly spaced) that seems to be maybe a field or frame out of sync with every other "slice". These "slices" are very apparent on the last scene while panning & it gets to a busier background. Check it out. I've never seen this oddity before. It's as if some crappy, somewhat subtle digital effect has been applied.

I would play this tape from the A1 if I were you & run this out to a monitor from your cam, preferably with component out. If it's not there then it's likely an error during your encoding process. If it IS there then I would contact Canon ASAP.

*edit* This was observed while using QT. I just now, on a whim, opened it with Media Player & can't see the sliced stuff but it still looks horrible nonetheless.
Bill Busby is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:43 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network