Bamboozled in the UK with Canon XH A1 wedding audio

[Peter Dunphy]

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

Peter - Minidiscs are about a pound wherever you look now. You won't need to buy in bulk - they can be reused for years and years.

That's great Tom thanks :o) I can't wait to use it. It will also be incredibly handy for recording sound effects for a couple of short films I'm about to make.

I've also bid for a MKE300 Sennheiser mic to use in conjunction with the Minidisc recorder. Fingers crossed I get it. You mentioned it's best to record on the Minidisc in Mono. On the detail page of the MKE300 it states "Please note this mike has been fitted with a stereo 3.5mm jack shorted to mono." I suppose the mic having been 'shorted to mono' wouldn't cause me any bother would it, since I'm recording in Mono anyway?

[Tom Hardwick]

No bother at all - it's been wired for that to put the same signal across both channels of a camcorder. Or a Minidisc recorder come to that - but the beauty of setting your MD to record in mono is that it will record for twice the time at the same high quality.

[Richard Gooderick]

Originally Posted by Peter Dunphy

It will also be incredibly handy for recording sound effects for a couple of short films I'm about to make.

I'm a big fan of minidisc and lashed out on what is arguably the best ie the HHB Portadisc.

I used it for voice recording and all the effects during a sailing trip across the Atlantic. It's robustness and the low cost of media were key factors.

However I came up against the limitations of minidisc when recording sealions in the surf (not something I would normally do, I was on a sound recording course at the time). It just couldn't handle that amount of data.

So, for most sound effects it will be fine but don't expect it to be able to cope with everything you throw at it.

[Paul R Johnson]

In all seriousness, with recording available to SD and SDHC cards now, there is no way that investing in MD is a good idea. Don't get me wrong - I've been an avid MD user for a very long time, I currently have 6 from portables (as said above the HHB machine is superb and has a USB socket for getting audio in digitally to the editor) - but the manufacturers are not supoorting it an longer. All the professional rack mount machines bar two, have been discontinued, and the portables are getting rarer. In some towns the kids in the shops have never even heard of MD - In Belfast last Christmas, I found the last 5 in the Sony shop.

Zoom and Edirol seem very popular in the non-MD kit ranges.

Nobody has said much about using rifle mics - the one thing that is critical is that the person aiming them has the ability to hear what they 'collect'. Boom swinging is often given to the inexperienced ops who cannot hear what is going n - so very often they vaguely point the mic in the correct direction, but without listening - this is far too random. Pointing at the floor and ceiling as also very common.

Further up the OP asked about the plug in transmitter being raved about. I'd agree that these are amazingly useful. I don't do weddings but work in theatres - and they're great for attaching to a small mic on a small stand and sitting on the stage edge, or for giving to the sound op, who just plugs them into the mixer to send me a clean feed of the audio going to the PA. A sennheiser receiver on the camera is one way of getting audio into the camera, but I often have mains available and use a mains receiver to do the same thing.

The sennheiser kit with two transmitters and one receiver is cost effective, but two receivers is a must, really, in my view.

[Peter Dunphy]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

In all seriousness, with recording available to SD and SDHC cards now, there is no way that investing in MD is a good idea. Don't get me wrong - I've been an avid MD user for a very long time, I currently have 6 from portables (as said above the HHB machine is superb and has a USB socket for getting audio in digitally to the editor) - but the manufacturers are not supoorting it an longer. All the professional rack mount machines bar two, have been discontinued, and the portables are getting rarer. In some towns the kids in the shops have never even heard of MD - In Belfast last Christmas, I found the last 5 in the Sony shop.

Zoom and Edirol seem very popular in the non-MD kit ranges.

Nobody has said much about using rifle mics - the one thing that is critical is that the person aiming them has the ability to hear what they 'collect'. Boom swinging is often given to the inexperienced ops who cannot hear what is going n - so very often they vaguely point the mic in the correct direction, but without listening - this is far too random. Pointing at the floor and ceiling as also very common.

Further up the OP asked about the plug in transmitter being raved about. I'd agree that these are amazingly useful. I don't do weddings but work in theatres - and they're great for attaching to a small mic on a small stand and sitting on the stage edge, or for giving to the sound op, who just plugs them into the mixer to send me a clean feed of the audio going to the PA. A sennheiser receiver on the camera is one way of getting audio into the camera, but I often have mains available and use a mains receiver to do the same thing.

The sennheiser kit with two transmitters and one receiver is cost effective, but two receivers is a must, really, in my view.

Thanks for the suggestions Paul, much appreciated. I got my recordable Minidisc 2nd hand for fifty quid, so not too bad an investment I feel, considering the new non-minidisc recorders appear to be at least double the price. According to the Ebay listing it's as good as new so hopefully I'll get a couple of years out of it anyway :o) Once I get a bunch of weddings under my belt I'll be able to upgrade to more state-of-the-art recording devices for backup.

Nicholas from earlier in this thread wrote me a very useful email with some valuable information which supports what you've said. Here is an excerpt:

"The plug-in is multipurpose and gives you flexibility sometimes you plug in directly to an audio desk from DJ or you can plug it into a dynamic handheld
mic then you actually have a handheld wireless at a fraction of the cost.

I'd suggest you buy two full sets, one combo with plug-in and another normal lav set, you only need one plug in. Here is a scenario, you convert a normal
handheld mic to a wireless with the plug, you put the mic on a stand and because you have two receivers you give one to the DJ for his system and you
plug one into your camera, tune both receivers on the same channel and the one plug-in (transmitter) will be picked up by two receivers.

Truth be told you are not going to be using the plug-in all the time however the little price difference makes it worth it for the situations that you
need it, you won't be able to get a standalone wireless handheld at that price.

Remember that one transmitter = one receiver. You can have one transmitter = two or more receivers but one receivers can't pick up signals from two
transmitters.

Yes you can definitely have two lavs on your XHA1. The XHA1 has two audio channels, just set the switches so channel 1 and 2 is separate."

[Peter Dunphy]

Originally Posted by Richard Gooderick

I'm a big fan of minidisc and lashed out on what is arguably the best ie the HHB Portadisc.

I used it for voice recording and all the effects during a sailing trip across the Atlantic. It's robustness and the low cost of media were key factors.

However I came up against the limitations of minidisc when recording sealions in the surf (not something I would normally do, I was on a sound recording course at the time). It just couldn't handle that amount of data.

So, for most sound effects it will be fine but don't expect it to be able to cope with everything you throw at it.

Thanks Richard for your advice :o)

Well, it should hopefully be a bit more convenient than using my Panasonic GS230 to record sound effects, wasting valuable Minidv tapes :o)

[Peter Dunphy]

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

No, they're describing how to set the audio recording manually, though I've not come across one that has manual level settings yet doesn't have a switchable limiter.

My favourite at the moment is the Sony MZ-R900. It's the size of 3 Minidiscs stacked one on top of another and runs from a rechargeable, slim, internal NiMh cell. It's a lot smaller than my radio mic sender unit and fits in any pocket the groom has spare.

It has a 'hold' switch on the back and is hard-wired in the sense that a radio mic certainly isn't.

tom.

Hi Tom

What type of tie-clip mic do you use with your Sony MZ-R900 please? Also, for your MKE300 Sennheiser mic, do you have that on a little stand by the top table during the speeches at the reception? If so, what kind of stand do you use? I was thinking that if I just left the mic on the table, propped up with a bottle or something, it might be liable to pick up table knocks and thuds as people move about in their seats? Might you use the MKE300 Sennheiser mic for anything else?

[Tom Hardwick]

Peter - here's a shot of the mini recording set-up I use on the top table (shown here with the Sharp recorder that was lifted). It's generally backup, but I do love backup, any backup. The fold up stand is from Jessups, less than 15 quid.

A little self contained Minidisc recording set-up. So useful for audio backup.

The tie-clip mic is a Sony. Pretty cheap but then a cheap mic up close rocks I always say. In fact often the vows from the couple are 'too clear' in the church because of this close micing, and need to be downgraded somewhat with a mix from the shotgun.

tom.

[Martyn Hull]

Why in this day of fantastic stereo sound on films and tv do you guys film your weddings in mono sound,do the customers like that way,i am just interested.

[Tom Hardwick]

Always shoot mono Martyn - it's the way all professionals shoot.

You can pan, mix, equalise, boost, coagulate to your heart's content in the peace and privacy of your edit suite - just get good, clear, undistorted sound at the scene of the crime, ok?

Of course the added music will be stereo and if I use the Z1's on board mics for ambiance it'll be a sort-of stereo. I say sort-of because every move I make moves the stereo image around - and this can be quite disconcerting through headphones off the DVD.

Shoot mono - it's simple.

tom.

[Martyn Hull]

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

Always shoot mono Martyn - it's the way all professionals shoot.

You can pan, mix, equalise, boost, coagulate to your heart's content in the peace and privacy of your edit suite - just get good, clear, undistorted sound at the scene of the crime, ok?

Of course the added music will be stereo and if I use the Z1's on board mics for ambiance it'll be a sort-of stereo. I say sort-of because every move I make moves the stereo image around - and this can be quite disconcerting through headphones off the DVD.

Shoot mono - it's simple.

tom.

Most pros say the same i know but myself i have a rode video mike and stereo mike and the stereo mike gives much better sound for me but thats just my line.i only shoot amateur for myself mind,cheers

[Peter Dunphy]

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

Peter - here's a shot of the mini recording set-up I use on the top table (shown here with the Sharp recorder that was lifted). It's generally backup, but I do love backup, any backup. The fold up stand is from Jessups, less than 15 quid.

A little self contained Minidisc recording set-up. So useful for audio backup.

The tie-clip mic is a Sony. Pretty cheap but then a cheap mic up close rocks I always say. In fact often the vows from the couple are 'too clear' in the church because of this close micing, and need to be downgraded somewhat with a mix from the shotgun.

tom.

Thanks for that Tom,

It will be great to have that running in the background.

At Jessops I think I've located the clamp/table top tripod you have, but it's photo doesn't seem to have the same tripod 'legs' yours has. Do you think it's the same one please?:

Jessops Clamp/Table Tripod - Jessops

"Compact 88.9mm (3.5in) clamp, with ball and socket head. Doubles as a table tripod. Maximum grip 55mm."

This really is a great solution for me as regards backup.

[Tom Hardwick]

That's the one Peter, go for it. Get the one with the coarse plastic thread rather than the brass (fine) thread as it's much quicker to use. You'll find all sorts of uses for this tripod - as some of my other pictures show.

[Peter Dunphy]

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

That's the one Peter, go for it. Get the one with the coarse plastic thread rather than the brass (fine) thread as it's much quicker to use. You'll find all sorts of uses for this tripod - as some of my other pictures show.

Brilliant Tom, thanks - looks a class little setup :o)

[Tom Hardwick]

There's but one niggle in the ointment. The Minidisc is a mechanical device that every now and then spins up the disc to store its full memory, then switches off the disc while it remembers some more. This mechanical noise can be heard on the recording in quiet surroundings, so decent isolation between mic and recorder is a good idea.

tom.