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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old September 23rd, 2008, 01:14 AM   #1
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A1 replacement thoughts

With the EOS 5D2's video functionality, isn't it pretty obvious that the replacements for XHA1 and H1 will have a large sensor and that it will probably allow you to utilize EF lenses?

Perhaps I should hold off my A1 purchase until the replacement is announced.. Looks like it'll be rental houses for me.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 01:24 AM   #2
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That will be nice but Canon take a long time to change their technology, I would say waiting for a new Canon cam is going to be at least 3 years. In the meanwhile you could look at getting a Scarlet which has a 3k sensor and will only cost around $3,000.

Otherwise if you are going to make money of shooting then just grab an A1 because you'll make the money back anyway and its a well tested cam so you know exactly what it does.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 04:03 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yang Wen View Post
With the EOS 5D2's video functionality, isn't it pretty obvious that the replacements for XHA1 and H1 will have a large sensor and that it will probably allow you to utilize EF lenses?

Perhaps I should hold off my A1 purchase until the replacement is announced.. Looks like it'll be rental houses for me.
I don't think so. If you look at price estimates, the 5D2 is only a little cheaper than the A1, but lacks many of the features pro video shooters commonly use. If you add the pro video features, you end up with a much more expensive unit than the A1.

In deference to Chris, I'll stop now and refer to this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/digital-v...announced.html

which encapsulates all the discussion points in one place
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 04:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Szilveszter View Post
That will be nice but Canon take a long time to change their technology, I would say waiting for a new Canon cam is going to be at least 3 years. In the meanwhile you could look at getting a Scarlet which has a 3k sensor and will only cost around $3,000.

Otherwise if you are going to make money of shooting then just grab an A1 because you'll make the money back anyway and its a well tested cam so you know exactly what it does.
Have you seen that the Scarlet spec/price etc is now all up for grabs? If not, the Red site has, well, not details, but what info there is.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 04:46 AM   #5
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Pete, I hear you when you say it will pay itself off, but I disagree. The only way it will pay itself off is when the client chooses to purchase a HD product shot on said camera.

Why do I mention HD product, because HDV and its relatives do not offer substantial benefits to those only offering SD.

In addition, depending on HOW the camera is to be used, then I agree 100%, as the A1 is designed PURELY for video. The 5d, is still a DSLR, with no sound options, let alone functions to take advantage if this incredible video spec.

Basically, from my understanding of the purpose of including video, was to not only compete with Nikon, but to also offer Journo shooters options to capture video at a news scene or somewhere where logistics do not have an ENG shooter handy.

The best thing about the 5dII however, is the fact it records this video in MP4 as RAW. I wouldn't call it a serious competitor for Red. They're different beasts.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 05:37 AM   #6
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Forget FF sensor XH-A1 MkII. Simple reason: impossible to make or sell a 20x zoom lens that would cover the same angle, it would weigh over 20 kg and cost more than a house. 5D sensor size is 43mm diagonal, XH-A1 sensor is 8,5mm. For the same picture angles the lenses would have to 5 times bigger (focal length), which means they would be 5x5x5=125 times bigger in all dimensions for same apertures...

Reality check: 5D sensor is about twice as big as 35mm movie film frame or sensor used in RED, for example.

Canon 5D can shoot some kind of video, but it certaily does not make it a usable video camera. People claiming that have no idea what video/movie production really is and how the tools are used.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 09:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson View Post
...HDV and its relatives do not offer substantial benefits to those only offering SD.
Incorrect. The overwhelming consensus of folks from this site have noted how HDV downsampled to SD is clearly superior to SD origination.

Quote:
The 5d, is still a DSLR, with no sound options...
Actually the 5D Mk. II has a mic input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petri Kaipiainen View Post
Forget FF sensor XH-A1 MkII. Simple reason: impossible to make or sell a 20x zoom lens that would cover the same angle, it would weigh over 20 kg and cost more than a house.
Bingo! Why this simple fact is so often overlooked is a mystery to me.

Remember also that although photo lenses may be somewhat suitable for filmmaking, without a motorized zoom they're almost useless for event videography and other types of video applications.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 10:28 AM   #8
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Scarlet scrapped for now:

Electronista | RED scraps, rethinks Scarlet camera


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Gordon View Post
Have you seen that the Scarlet spec/price etc is now all up for grabs? If not, the Red site has, well, not details, but what info there is.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 10:31 AM   #9
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And you will need a 20GB CF card to record aprox. an hour of HD video. Compare the cost of a 20GB card with a good miniDV tape.

Best wishes
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 10:39 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Joel Peregrine View Post
Scarlet scrapped for now...
Huh? No it hasn't -- see Scarlet's Redesign: WHAT WE KNOW. Why would you quote an inaccurate third-party blog (which refers to RED founder Jim Jannard as a "company rep"), when you can get the *real* story direct from the manufacturer? Scarlet hasn't been scrapped... quite the opposite, in fact.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 10:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petri Kaipiainen View Post
Reality check: 5D sensor is about twice as big as 35mm movie film frame or sensor used in RED, for example.
I think it's the same size as 35mm film, which allows you to use 35mm camera lenses without focal length conversion.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 10:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petri Kaipiainen View Post
5D sensor is about twice as big as 35mm movie film frame...
The frame size for 35mm still photography is 24mm x 36mm.

The frame size for 35mm motion pictures is 22mm x 16mm (4-perf Academy format).

The frame size for Super35 (or S35) motion pictures is just under 25mm x 19mm.

So yes, a 35mm still-photo frame has more than twice the area of a standard 35mm motion
picture frame and almost double the area of a Super35 motion picture frame. Hope this helps,
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 11:44 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
The frame size for 35mm still photography is 24mm x 36mm.

The frame size for 35mm motion pictures is 22mm x 16mm (4-perf Academy format).

The frame size for Super35 (or S35) motion pictures is just under 25mm x 19mm.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. :-)
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 03:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Juan Parmenides View Post
And you will need a 20GB CF card to record aprox. an hour of HD video. Compare the cost of a 20GB card with a good miniDV tape.

Best wishes
To clarify current costs and record times (for my new camera);

Specs from a tapeless camera, the AG HMC-150

PH - 21 Mpbs (1920x1080) - Highest Quality Setting
HA - 17 Mpbs (1920x1080)
HG - 13 Mpbs (1920x1080)
HE - 6 Mpbs (1440x1280) - Long-form Recording


• Extra-long record times - one 32GB SDHC card can hold up to 3 hours in the PH mode mode, 4 hours HA, 5.3 hours at HG mode and 12 hours in the HE mode.

• Records in a full range of HD formats including 1080/60i, 1080/30p, 1080/24p; 720/60p, 720/30p, 720/24p

SDHC class 6 card costs today @ Newegg
8GB = $17
16GB = $36
32GB = $128

I haven't tested it yet, but the HA mode is probably closest to the HDV codec quality wise. The 64GB cards should be out in a week and hopefully the 32GB will take another price drop.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 03:42 PM   #15
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B&Hphoto sent out this review of the XH-A1 last week:

Hands-On with the Canon XH A1 | B&H Photo Video Pro Audio
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