Is Canon going to upgrade the XH line to AVCHD recording from HDV? at DVinfo.net

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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old January 9th, 2010, 04:43 PM   #1
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Is Canon going to upgrade the XH line to AVCHD recording from HDV?

It seems like all their consumer cams are quickly going the AVCHD route with SD based recording.

I'm hoping they release an upgraded, say XH A1.

Sony has unveiled 2 brand new prosumer models this week at CES, and I was thinking Canon might announce something, but no luck on the prosumer front.

I have had a GL1 since 1999 and absolutely love it. I also have an XL1s that is great too, but much to big to take on vacation etc. These cams are reaching the end of their lives i believe and I am really wanting to go prosumer with Canon and not Sony.

Guess I'll continue to wait.

Anyone heard of any updates to the XH line?
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Old January 9th, 2010, 05:26 PM   #2
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... upgrade the XH line to AVCHD recording from HDV?
That would be an upgrade??
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Old January 9th, 2010, 11:19 PM   #3
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yes an upgrade

from everything i've read and heard, the AVCHD format is higher quality than HDV.

also, it would be nice to have a tapeless workflow using SD cards.

additionally, a new model could incorporate their new Digic III (or IV) image processor.

my former business partner has 2 XHA1s, and I've shot with them, and they are nice. But, the technology is changing so quickly, and basically the majority of manufacturers are pushing non-tape based cameras. I would hate to buy an HDV camera if for some reason that technology becomes like Beta, in Beta vs VHS... or HD DVD etc.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 01:29 AM   #4
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AVCHD is indeed a big upgrade from HDV, in image recording quality. It's akin to the difference between XDCAM EX and HDV image recording quality.

I sure hope the next pro cam from Canon isn't built around CCDs though. That would be disappointing (to me), since I've got to think it would mean less than full raster, progressive imaging chips. If indeed it's essentially built around what amounts to SD chips on a hefty dose of steroids (pushing pixel shifting technology absolutely to the hilt), like the HMC150, all it's going to inspire from me is a yawn.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 02:05 AM   #5
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If Canon follow their past history, they wait till around March/April to release their new prosumer cams.

It's going to be crunch time for a lot of DVtape users, IMO the *new XH-G1/A1* will be solid state storage with some ground breaking features to keep their market intact. In fact there maybe 2 models one with and one without these ball busting features.

Canon and JVC now have only ONE DV tape cam in their whole 2010 consumer ranges which totals 19 cameras!! and it's the current Canon HV40 .. don't know about Sony.

Folk with a big tape library better look to maintaining their current tape machine in top condition or maybe buying one that at least plays, off Ebay. Maybe a marketing idea for a super grade cheaper DVtape player ..?

Cheers.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 02:08 AM   #6
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AVCHD is indeed a big upgrade from HDV, in image recording quality.
No it isn't.

AVCHD is an upgrade in compression making possible storage efficiency on solid state media, but it is not an upgrade in image quality over HDV, particularly the quality of HDV the XH-A1 is capable of. Even though AVCHD cams output 1920x 1080, the resolved detail is still only about 800 lines, the same as HDV.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 03:12 AM   #7
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I hope Canon doesn't leave their loyal HDV following in the dust by completely switching to AVCHD. I hope they have both HDV and AVCHD in 1 camera.

Or invent their own version of AVCHD. Then provide a flash storage accessory option like the Sony HVR-MRC1 which can be used with HDV cameras, including the XH series.

I would prefer to have both options rather one, since flash will introduce the cost of storage and backup. And I like my cheap and reliable tapes.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 03:31 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Kyle Root View Post
from everything i've read and heard, the AVCHD format is higher quality than HDV.
Then, Sir, you have read and heard selectively. There are many on dvinfo who are not so convinced. It is not as simple as more efficient compression.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 08:47 AM   #9
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I don't know how that would work... but combining some sort of dual recording tape based option for archiving and then SD card based direct to edit function would be very handy.

I have seen those Firestore type solutions but those are $$$. We did buy a capDV back when they first came out, and it proved to be very useful. But we quickly realized we could simply use laptops to capture onto for the same price or less even, and so we started using laptops and capturing directly into Premiere and used a set of removeable hard drive caddies for stoarge about 6 years ago. That worked wonderfully, and still works decent for HDV (according to my friend with the XHA1s), but don't know how well that methodology would work with AVCHD which sounds to be pretty demanding on the computer.

The thought of having a small card with 32 GB or 64GB of storage that can hold several hours of video ready to be edited without capture time is very appealing. Of course, there is an archive/backup issue that you lose which is very convenient for tape. I have been doing this for 10 years and have hundreds and hundreds of miniDV tapes.

I have been very impressed with the Canon quality, as once I got over the "hot pixel" hump on the GL1 back when it first came out (Canon replaced my GL1 2 times in 1 year due to defective image sensors in 1999-2000), I have not had a problem with it in 9 years. Same thing with the XL1s, having it about 7 years.

I am still trying to dig into all the info and read about all the HD type stuff and what will be required to properly edit it, as I know my computer system is about 5 years old and probably won't be able to handle it.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 05:10 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
No it isn't.

AVCHD is an upgrade in compression making possible storage efficiency on solid state media, but it is not an upgrade in image quality over HDV, particularly the quality of HDV the XH-A1 is capable of. Even though AVCHD cams output 1920x 1080, the resolved detail is still only about 800 lines, the same as HDV.
I agree with this, The worst part of AVCHD compression at lower bitrates is it's awful gradient management. Prosumer equipment should not have AVCHD and use a more rigid codec similar to AVC-Intra or XDCAM HD 422.

AVCHD should remain a consumer codec.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 11:03 AM   #11
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Good info. Thanks for sharing.

There is so much competition out there for cameras and technology it can become overwhelming!

It looks like, based on the thread in the announcements section, Canon indeed has some sort of solid state prosumer camera in the works.

I will hold onto my GL1 and XL1s and milk them for all their worth, and see what Canon releases this year... and hope that all this "regular HD" gear isn't quickly overtaken by 3D camcorders!
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Old January 15th, 2010, 03:43 PM   #12
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Run, don't walk to Canon Reveals Their Next Pro Video Cam at DVInfo.net

Pick up the discussion here: Canon Reveals Their Next Pro Video Cam -- Discussion

Shutting this one down, in order to keep everything under one roof. Hope this helps,
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